peter monahan

This is a bit of a sticky area for collectors in general. Several decades ago now I recall a discussion about the fact that the 'new chap' in charge in the office concerned with such things was raking a hard line. Apparently his predecessor, either from policy or personal inclination, had been very good about providing information to enquirers on recipients of the various orders, based on serial numbers and so on . This chap, however, was taking the view, expressed quite forcibly I understand that 'If you're asking because you have that piece, we want it back!', which understandably alarmed those who had invested in examples of the orders for their collections. I'm not sure what the current attitude is but I think that infromation, or at least rumour, had the effect of driving some of the collectors and the pieces underground.

Fascinating. One wonders when he made the 'jump' to Canada and, evn more intriguing, whether he is the same man as the volunteer ambulance driver, in which case he's be entitled to a 1914 or 1914-15 Star as well in all likelihood. It appears that he married only in 1913 [in Toronto] so that doesn't help.

Certainly nothing I've ever seen and I doubt that the use of the Garter motto is an authorized one. Based on the 'bust' og Henry and the quality [poor] of the work, I'd guess that it is in fact an 'International Order', as you so diplomatically put it, or soemthing similar.

Leigh Any comments on the results obtained with your wonder cream? Always happy to hear whether or not someone has come up with a good/bettre/best treatment for old leather. Peter

If you wish the roots of this tradition, I believe you need to look to the 'Black Brunswickers' of the Napoleonic period and their spiritual descendants in the German cavalry of the 19th century. Pity the SS made the skull so unpalatable as a device to most modern users.

On a vaguely related note, I was just in Cuba for a week, last week, and saw Che everywhere! However, he phiz was almost entirely on tee shirts, cigar boxes, ash trays and jewelry, while all of the dozen or so statues and busts I saw in parks and outside government buildings were of Jose Marti. Not sure what if anything it signifies, but thought it interesting.

I think I can just make it out but you're right, its hard to see. Not a terribly attractive medal either, in my opinion, but then no one is likely to award it to me so that shouldn't matter! Thanks for your continued research and postings.

Very nice, Jerry. When I win the lottery I may have a chap I know paint me up a couple as coffee tables. Our re-enacting brigade has both a Corps of Drums [and fifes] and several very talented artists, who have decorated the drums. Something else to put on the list for the day-dream man cave!

Well spotted, Jerry. Though I did like Hugh's theory too!

Well done, Gary! Les is correct about leather items being essentially impossible to date accurately except by evidence other than the item itself. His point about old iron is also a very pertinent one. A friend is actually an expert in Viking Age smithing and has discovered that it is almost impossible to make artifacts above a certain [small] size on charcoal forges, which is what I believe African smiths used. That and the sheer cost of iron meant that nothing was made of iron if another material would do, even in medieval and early modern Europe, but of course that iron tools and weapons were cared for and often passed down for decades.

Hela is correct: additional information will help substantially to increase the likelihood of finding the information you're looking for.

One tends to forget that significant numbers of the officers and men wounded in action were later returned to duties other than front line service. My research into the CEF suggests that by 1917-18 tens of thousands of men were engaged in carrying parties, construction of trenches and roads and so on, having been judged fit for duty but not for the trenches. Presumably any able officer so judged could take the place of a fitter men in an important but less demanding 'rear echelon' job. In fact, I suspect that many of the 'red tabs' heartily despised by the front line troops may well have fit this description. I wonder if McKay was one such.

ilja, do you mean that Commandant Tarpaga has been awarded the medal? I can't pick it out under the fouragerre on his uniform.

I know nothing about Serbian awards or badges but my first reaction to that kind of verdigris, cynic that I am, is that it could very well be covering a multitude of sins - imperfections in this case.

This is when being honest puts one well behind the pack in the race to make money! Wish I had the imagination and Chutzpah to do this kind of thing. But then I'd have to sleep at night, so perhaps not. I did, however, buy any number of old carving set boxes once upon a time just because I like old wooden boxes. Never occurred to mew to use them for anything other than keeping trinkets in though. 'Bother!', as Pooh says.

The First Battalion of the 57th was in Limerick and Dublin from 1881 to 1897 but the 2nd Bttn was in Madras [1881], Rangoon, Burma and Secunderbad [1884]. The two battalions of the Sussex regiment seem to have been in Cyprus and 'Buttevante' [?] from 1880 to at least 1885. Here's the source I used: http://www.remthepast.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/location.html I hope that's some help.

And, I bet money, still has some reference to the Prince of Wales on its kit or in its regalia. If IA units can get away with carrying battle honours from the Mutiny, I'm sure the traditions of the CIH are alive as well. And welcome to the GMIC, Anand! Its always nice to have more representation from the sub-continent as well as Europe and North America, especially on topics like this one. Peter

And no wonder. A lovely set of gongs! Peter

I agree: something that's been mocked up to represent a naval hero; probably Nelson.

I must respectfully disagree, Dante. As I know from having commanded them albeit only at re-enactments of Naopleonic battles, a 'wing' is generally half of whatever formation is on the field. In the case of an infantry regiment whose full strength was present, the left wing would be four companies, probably A-D [or 1-4] and the right wing would be th other four. In a brigade, the left wing would probably be two battalions - with attached scouts, etc - and thr right wing the same. It's an ad hoc arrangement arising from the over all commander of a force deciding to split that force for tactical reasons, so the 'wing' has no real existance off the field. Given a large enough force one could, in theory, split it into two wings and have one of the wing commanders subsequently split his force again into two halves. The wings are designated by the field commander and may not always be equal in strength, but that is the simplist version - the commander splits his command and each wing then has the full attention of a subordinate commander, either the original CO and a subordnate, or two subordiantes, with the CO exercising oversight of both wings.

Now that I've wiped the droll off my laptop, wow! One comment, Chris, on the light issue. I took a conservation course a few years ago now as part of a Museum Studies certificate, and one class we had was on lighting and LED display lighting. State of the art is fibre optics, so that one lights exactly the artifact and nothing else. The bonus is that the light so delivered is without UV and infrared, the elements which damage cloth, wood and so on. I'm not sure about cost, as I don't have a museum, or even a man cave, so I didn't care much, but you might consider at least looking into it. The US National Parks Conservation Asscoiation is, I'm pretty sure, the group who publish a whole series of conservation articles, aimed at historic sites and museusm, and may have some useful advice available on-line. I'm prety sure that's where i stole info. and ideas for some papers I did at the time. Lovely lovely stuff. Thanks for sharing!

I agree completely that the hobby is becoming less and less accessible but, sadly or not, that is the reality of collecting things which they 'aren't making anymore'. By its nature, what we're interested in is mainly 'limited edition'. Sure, for WWI and WWII the numbers were only limited to hundreds of thousands or even millions, but it's been 100 years and 70 years respectively since the stuff appeared and every year X% goes into the ground, the fire or is simply lost, so inevtiably rarity goes up and with it, price. The very first medal I ever bought was one of 50-60 in a cigar box, all silver WWI medals on their way to a jeweller's furnace because the price of silver had just hit $11.00 Canadian an ounce. Many of Canada's silver coins went to the same place that year [1985-6?]. Add the very things which make them attractive - rareity, for the gallantry awards, aesthetic and historical value for some of the orders, and one has a recipe for endless inflation. How many times have you heard 'Oh, we threw those away.'? I don't know that there is a solution, except perhaps to hope that some of the rich bidders will decide to switch hobbies [or investments]. These days I focus on research and get, I tell myself, as much fun from a singleton campaign medal whose history I reconstruct, as Lord poobah does from the latest VS he's snapped up. That's what I tell myself!

Saad, Thank you for the additional information. 34 years is impressive in any man's army! If I hadn't just come back from an out of the country hioliday, I'd be looking up your ebay posting to check the price! Good luck with the sale, though. Peter

Very nice, though I don't think I'd want it in my car if the peelers stopped me, even labelled as it is.