6er Frackspange with two Foreign awards

[VtwinVince]

Congratulations on this excellent spange, absolute beauty. Anything ex-Seymour is bound to be special.

[Guest Rick Research]

Well, perhaps TOO narrow--

In the Winter 1994 issue, Peter Wray gives number 285 as 1904 and number 382 as 19 September 1905-- so that widens the gap to 1904-12 depending on whos dat is more accurate.

The thing is, apparently these SHOULD have been posted in the London Gazette and plucking out a German diplomat and then matching him up with (hopefully) a 1908/09 Orders Almanac entry MIGHT work.

If only George's vast documentation hadn't been thrown away! :banger:

[Ulsterman]

I read somewhere that Edward VII awarded something like 25% of all RVOs extant. He was dead by 1910, but I'd bet odds-on money this was an Edward VII award. Perhaps focusing on 1905-10 would help.

[Luke]

Lots of enamel - very nice

[Guest Rick Research]

Continuing to work my way forward in the back issues of the O.M.R.S. Journal, the Winter 1996 edition has a book review for

"Royal Service: Volume 1," by Peter Galloway, David Stanley, Stanley Martin, CVO, Henry Pownall, and John Tamplin, then available at the Central Chancery of the Orders of Knighthood which listed all BRITISH recipients of all classes of the Royal Victorian Order. A planned Volume 2 was to list all the foreign "honorary" recipients--

all without serial numbers apparently, but at least (presumably) with dates.

You might want to enquire at O.M.R.S. or google search this for a Volume 2 (ISBN of Volume 1 was 0 9528527 0 5)

A "mere" list of German NAMES can, of course, be worked through here at GMIC by what my research confrères and I can find about German recipients, once we know what those names ARE.

That would also help with your Swede-- who must have been issued with a RE-issued returned Order-- and knowing that would help the folks at O.M.R.S. interested in the Royal Victorian Order. It's a small interconnected world, if only one hand knows what the other is doing.

[webr55]

Some years have passed, and I might have a suspect for this bar:

Christian Blunck

His RVO4 was gazetted 12th August 1904 in the London Gazette.

He is listed in the DOA 1908/09 as "Ober- und Geheimer Baurat bei der Eisenbahndirektion Königsberg" with the following awards:

Oldenburg OV3a

PrRAO4

PrKO3

British RVO4

and a Swedish North Star Order, Knight ("SchwdN3"). Yes, obviously this is not on his bar.

The Russian St. Anne he may well have received after 1908, indeed quite plausible since he was posted to Königsberg near the Russian border later.

I see two possibilities for the Swedish award:

1) Mistake by the publisher; it should read SchwdN2b - a neck/commander cross.

2) The SchwdN3 was upgraded to Commander after 1908.

Regards

Chris

Edited May 19, 2012 by webr55

[Claudio]

Wow Chris! These are great news... I was really wondering if it wasn't possible to find a possible owner of this bar. Great research work !!!! Thanks a lot... hope that other forumites could confirm your research!

Edited May 19, 2012 by Claudio

[Dave Danner]

The 1913 Prussian Court and State Handbook shows Christian Blunck with the following:

RAO4, KO3, GV4, OV3a, RA2, SN3.

In 1913, he received the RAO3mSchl and the MU3 (Montenegrin Order of Danilo). In 1915 he received the pinback SA3. He retired from Prussian state service in 1916 and received the KO2.

So probably not him, unfortunately.

[Claudio]

I rejoiced too soon... but thanks anyway for the good try!

[Paul C]

Close but no cigar.

[Komtur]

Kanalbauinspektor Friedrich Gilbert

15. Juni 1895: Preußen, Roter Adlerorden 4. Klasse

1. Juli 1904: Großbritannien, Viktoria-Orden 4. Klasse

19. August: Preußen, 1904 Kronenorden 3. Klasse

21. Juli 1905: Oldenburg, Hausorden Ritterkreuz 1. Klasse

6. November 1909 (Tragegenehmigung veröffentlich): Russland, St. Annenorden 3. Klasse

 

[Claudio]

Dear Komtur!!!!

Wooooooooooooooooow! That was such a wonderful surprise to read your message today early in the morning. 

After so many years a name, face and history behind a tuxedo medal bar has been finally found. That is so cool; even more because the wearer was such an elusive and rather unknown middle-rank harbor civilian official . 

Many many thanks to your extraordinary research work; not even the poor Rick Lundstrom (RIP) could unfortunately find him... you have beaten the master! Although, I think that given the research possibilities of today, Rick could have given to the collecting and researching community of German Imperial orders so much more, if he had lived longer... 

Thanks again Komtur! 

????

Edited May 31, 2019 by Claudio

[Utgardloki]

Fantastic! That identifying always  amazes me.

That bar is absolutely beautiful. I love the look of the Oldenburg Verdienstorden out of Gold, a beautiful decoration.

[Claudius]

BRAVO!!  Fantastic and wonderful to put a name AND photo to the bar!

[webr55]

Congratulations!