House Order of Hohenzollern - info needed

[Glenn J]

1 hour ago, webr55 said:

but he must have been promoted

 

Indeed he was: 18 June 1915.

 

Regards

Glenn

[Deruelle]

3 hours ago, webr55 said:

Then there is the case Geyer, got the HHOX as Hptm in mid 1917. Not too many who would fit, we already have Hugo and Hermann in our list, then there are two Bavarians - and two other ones:

 

- Saxon Hauptmann Karl Geyer (seniority 23.9.1911), in TelBat 7, in the ERL as OTL aD. I would think he was already Major by 1917, but that would have to be checked. 

 

- Karl Erich Geyer, in 1914 Olt in GR 10, later Flügeladjutant of the Duke of Sachsen-Meiningen, as such received the SEHO in 1916. After that, in RIR 212. Acc. to ERL KIA in March 1918 (they list him as Olt, but he must have been promoted). I would tend to think it is him. 

Karl Geyer was promoted Hauptmann on 23.09.1911, Major on 21.05.1917, char Oberstleutnant on 21.01.1921

 

 

[Dave Danner]

Some supplemental information on Wolf Grandke from HR 13, whose known decorations were the HOH3X and a pre-war JK5:

 

Grandke, Hans Wolf Otto Friedrich

 

28.02.1905 in das Husaren-Regiment Nr. 5 eingetreten
21.04.1911 in das Husaren-Regiment Nr. 13 versetzt
18.06.1915 Rittmeister
06.12.1915 2. Adjutant der 6. Kavallerie-Division
27.11.1917 in das Husaren-Regiment Nr. 13 zurückversetzt und der 8. Landwehr-Division zur Verwendung bei der Infanterie überwiesen
05.12.1917 dem Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 111 zugeteilt
12.02.1918 der 47. Reserve-Division überwiesen

 

15.10.1914 EK2
xx.10.1916 EK1
xx.06.1916 OK1&2

 

The 47.RD was dissolved on 2. August 1918 and he was Bataillons-Führer of III./RIR 16 when he was killed a month later, but I don't know when he went to RIR 16, or in which unit he was when he received the HOH3X.

 

[webr55]

13 hours ago, Deruelle said:

Karl Geyer was promoted Hauptmann on 23.09.1911, Major on 21.05.1917, char Oberstleutnant on 21.01.1921

 

 

Ok, then it looks like we cannot totally rule him out at this point.

 

 

[webr55]

Not sure we discussed him before: The second Gerlich (besides Gerhard from RIR 22), who got the HHOX around June/July 1917, is either the flyer Martin Gerlich (1892-1920, http://www.fliegergraeber.de/Martin_Gerlich.htm), originally from GR 1, or Hans Gerlich from FAR 71, in ERL as Hauptmann aD, probably living in Königsberg in 1942. 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by webr55

[webr55]

Hptm Gemoll, originally from IR 88, is Julius Eduard Fritz Gemoll, born 7.2.1882 in Striegau, died 19.4.1947 in Hanau (ancestry).

 

 

Hptm dR Gelinsky from Pioniere is Paul Emil Konrad Gelinsky, Oberbaurat/Regierungsbaumeister, born 1876 in Danzig, died 1954 in Koblenz (VL and ancestry). 

 

[webr55]

Ernst Ritsert, an old case from 17 years ago, @Deruelle!

 

Should be Georg Ernst Hans Ritsert, born 14.2.1878 in Laubach/Hessen (acc. to ancestry). 

 

 

Lt dR Grahlmann from IR 399 is Kurt August Wilhelm, born 20.7.1896 in Grandshagen, Kreis Greifenberg. Bankbeamter in civil life, later Bankprokurist in Berlin. Died 1963 in Berlin (all acc. to ancestry). 

He is listed as a regular Lt in VL, but that must be an error, there is no regular Grahlmann in the ERL. 

 

[Dave Danner]

On 14/12/2021 at 12:25, webr55 said:

First name: Lt dR Heinrich Krumme, Annener Zeitung, 29.1.1918

Should be the one from RIR 90.

 

 

Now the question I have, which I have had no luck finding a definitive answer to, is this:

 

Is this Heinrich Krumme the same as the Heinrich Krumme born 22.10.1894 who was a Hptm.d.R. (RDA 01.08.38) and then Maj.i.G.d.R. (RDA 01.05.42), Friedensdienststelle Bochum, 01.05.42-15.06.44 Ib 199.ID, 30.08.44-25.11.44 beim OQu. d. Wehrm.Bfh. der Niederlanden, 01.12.44-25.02.45 Ic II.Armeekorps, 20.03.45 Außenstelle GenQu. im WKr. X?

[Glenn J]

1 hour ago, Dave Danner said:

 

 

Is this Heinrich Krumme the same as the Heinrich Krumme born 22.10.1894 who was a Hptm.d.R. (RDA 01.08.38) 

 

Dave,

 

I think most certainly

 

There are only two candidates holding that rank before the gazetting of the award in the 1918 Militär-Wochenblatt.

 

Leutnant d.R. (26.4.16) Heinrich Krumme of RIR 90 

Leutnant d.R. (31.12.17) Hans Krumme of IR 393

 

Leutnant d.R. (20.2.18) Rudolf Krumme of IR 477 was commissioned following the award of the HOH3X to the Krumme in the 1918, edition No 83 of the Militär-Wochenblatt.

 

Regards

Glenn

 

[Deruelle]

Hi

 

Saxon Rittmeister Hans Kaspar Dietrich von Trützschler Freiherr zum Falkenstein received the HOH3X on 28 October 1918.

 

Christophe

[webr55]

11 hours ago, Deruelle said:

Hi

 

Saxon Rittmeister Hans Kaspar Dietrich von Trützschler Freiherr zum Falkenstein received the HOH3X on 28 October 1918.

 

Christophe

 

Yes! I also see two other Trützschler von Falkenstein, one is Hans from IR 29, and there seems to be another Hauptmann who received the HHOX around July 1918. 

 

[Deruelle]

3 hours ago, webr55 said:

Hi,

Hans Kaspar Dietrich von Trützschler Freiherr zum Falkenstein was in the Karabiner Regiment in the beginning of the war. from the end of 1917 he was in the Stab of the 23 Reserve Division.

 

Christophe

 

 

3 hours ago, webr55 said:

Yes! I also see two other Trützschler von Falkenstein, one is Hans from IR 29, and there seems to be another Hauptmann who received the HHOX around July 1918. 

 

 

[webr55]

Besides Dietrich, 1885-1965, later GM Lw, we have his older brother:

 

Hans Trützschler von Falkenstein, in 1914 Olt in IR 93, Major aD, 1884-1933, received HHOX as Hptm around July 1918

 

 

Are we really sure there is a third Trützschler von Falkenstein with HHOX, another Hptm, who also received it around the same time as Hans? If so, I only find three aD candidates, no continuously active ones:

 

- Georg, in 1914 Hptm aD, IR 26, II. See-Bat, died 1924 

 

- Kurt, in 1914 Hptm aD, IR 26, Transport Laz Zug, Red Cross

 

- Fritz, in 1914 Hptm aD, GGR 1

 

[Deruelle]

26 minutes ago, webr55 said:

Besides Dietrich, 1885-1965, later GM Lw, we have his older brother:

 

Hans Trützschler von Falkenstein, in 1914 Olt in IR 93, Major aD, 1884-1933, received HHOX as Hptm around July 1918

 

 

Are we really sure there is a third Trützschler von Falkenstein with HHOX, another Hptm, who also received it around the same time as Hans? If so, I only find three aD candidates, no continuously active ones:

 

- Georg, in 1914 Hptm aD, IR 26, II. See-Bat, died 1924 

 

- Kurt, in 1914 Hptm aD, IR 26, Transport Laz Zug, Red Cross

 

- Fritz, in 1914 Hptm aD, GGR 1

 

His papers will be sold in September 2022, and it contains the date of the HOH3X

[webr55]

We might have had him before here: The Lt Vahl with HHOX is not Herbert-Ernst Vahl, 1896-1944, from IR 155, later SS Brigadeführer. It is Hellmuth/Helmut Vahl from IR 154, Olt aD, born 23.10.1893 in Liegnitz (couldn't find his death date). 

 

 

[webr55]

Lt dR Urtel from a MGSSA is most probably Hermann Urtel. He is listed in the VL in the MG Kompagnie of RIR 217 as Lt dR in 1915, from Halberstadt.

 

 

[webr55]

Lt dR Urbach from RIR 16 is most probably Kurt Urbach. He is in VL 1915 as Offz.Stellv. in RIR 16, and in August 1918 as Lt dR (without unit listed), born 29.12.XX in Militsch. 

[Glenn J]

Interesting,

 

he must have received his first wound just before he was promoted to Lt.d.R. (24.12.14). The VL entry for RIR 16 covers the period 20 to 30 December 1914.

 

Regards

Glenn

[Glenn J]

6 hours ago, webr55 said:

Lt dR Urtel from a MGSSA is most probably Hermann Urtel.

 

You must be right.

 

The only other wartime Lt.d.R. (22.6.15)  Urtel was Rudolf Ertel of IR 175/375 killed in action at Focsani in Rumania on 23 January 1917.

 

One can exclude Hauptmann d.R. Rudolf Urtel of the Kraftfahr-Bataillon which leaves Hermann; Lt.d.R. (7.1.15) in RIR 217.

 

Regards

Glenn

 

 

[webr55]

Hptm Lobeck is Fritz Lobeck, originally from FAR 43.

Born 26.11.1876 in Königsberg, according to VL. In ERL as Major aD.

 

From Münsterischer Anzeiger, 15.9.1917.

 

 

[webr55]

Hptm dL Nagel from RIR 240 is Oskar Friedrich Theodor Nagel. In VL 1915 wounded as Hptm dL in LIR 17.

Born 6.9.1875 in Neuenkirchen. Postdirektor in Bocholt. Died in a hospital in Hannover as Major on 2.2.1942.

 

From Münsterischer Anzeiger, 28.8.1917.

 

 

 

 

Hans Lefebvre: Not in our HHOX list, but is this maybe a Princely one?

 

Death notice from Münsterischer Anzeiger, 5.1.1945.

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by webr55

[webr55]

Franz Schencking lived 1888-1960, born and died in Riesenbeck (acc. to myheritage).

 

 

[webr55]

Olt/Lt dR Scholten is Konrad, from Bocholt. 

 

The Grothues from GFAR is Bernhard, from Liesborn. 

 

(And there is a Finnish Medal of Liberty to Vizefeldwebel Karl Lünnemann.)

 

Münsterischer Anzeiger, 4.6.1918.

 

[webr55]

Lt Willeke from MGSSA is Fritz Willeke from Münster. 

(Deiters we already had.)

 

Münsterischer Anzeiger, 20.6.1918.

 

 

[webr55]

There is definitely a typo here: this should be Hptm dR Max/Maximilian Gabriel, FAR 22 (later 51), from Eslohe. Born 23.5.XX acc. to VL. 

 

Münsterischer Anzeiger, 18.7.1918.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by webr55