Weimar time medal bars

[scottplen]

heres one i sold about a yr or so missing two battle crosses

[Mike Dunn]

Your metal bars are super! Here is my meager addition-a small three place ribbon bar-kind of interesting.. Mike

[Claudio]

Hi everybody!

The Ebay seller found Godet's original invoice and kindly sent it to me... incredible! Now also this bar has a name (Rud. Wendt)!!!

As you can see, the bar has been put together by Godet in the summer of 1930, still during the Weimar Republic period. Mr. Wendt provided Godet with all the medals and ribbons and Godet just had to made this very interesting bar.

Finally it all comes together...

Ciao,

Claudio

Just to keep this thread alive... here another recent aquisition... a Godet bar! I love these Godets... they are so immaculate and the ribbons are perfectly and cleanly folded.

? Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2. Klasse am K?mpferband (OEK 1904)

? Weimarer Republik, Deutsche Ehrendenkm?nze des Weltkrieges mit Kampfabzeichen der Ehrenlegion (DN 2.02.17 a/b)

? Weimarer Republik, Kyffh?user-Kriegsdenkm?nze 1914-18 mit Frontk?mpferabzeichen, Schwertern am Band (DN 2.02.33 a/b)

? Weimarer Republik, Ehrenbund s?chsischer Weltkriegsteilnehmer e. V. Kameradschaftsbund Deutscher Ost- u. Westfrontk?mpfer, Sommekreuz (DN 2.02.24 c)

? Weimarer Republik, Ehrenbund s?chsischer Weltkriegsteilnehmer e. V. Kameradschaftsbund Deutscher Ost- u. Westfrontk?mpfer, Champagnekreuz (DN 2.02.24 d)

? Weimarer Republik, Ehrenbund s?chsischer Weltkriegsteilnehmer e. V. Kameradschaftsbund Deutscher Ost- u. Westfrontk?mpfer, Argonnenkreuz (DN 2.02.24 b)

? Weimarer Republik, Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz, mit der Spange des F?siliers-Regiment Nr. 39 (DN 2.02.21 a)

Enjoy the pictures...

Ciao,

Claudio

[Guest Rick Research]

Terrific documentation of a type we never never never see...

quite interesting that he provided his own ribbons... this could explain the occasional "used" looking ones we see sometimes.

Very neat!!! :cheers:

[Claudio]

Thanks Rick for your kind words. Yes, such a documentation is rare... ask yourself a question: Did you ever keep an original invoice for more than 70 almost 80 years?

It would be interesting to know how much is the amount of that invoice translated in today's money... I got the feeling that already at that time, Godet was on the expensive side...

Ciao,

Claudio

[Scott]

Great bars! Thanks for sharing them. :cheers:

[Claudio]

A more detailled scan of the above-mentioned bars:

Detail of the ribbon bar

[Claudio]

Detail of the medal bar:

[Naxos]

Here's the best part... the reverse of the Photograph with the Name (but it says "evt." which in German also means "eventuell" translated in English as "most likely"). I read Raun... hopefully it's the real name of this proud NCO.

I'd like to hear your comments on it.

Ciao,

Claudio

Claudio this is an old thread but I just came across - very nice Bars!

The writing on the back reads: "Name evt. (eventuell) Siegfried Raun"

Hardy

[nesredep]

Hi everybody!

The Ebay seller found Godet's original invoice and kindly sent it to me... incredible! Now also this bar has a name (Rud. Wendt)!!!

As you can see, the bar has been put together by Godet in the summer of 1930, still during the Weimar Republic period. Mr. Wendt provided Godet with all the medals and ribbons and Godet just had to made this very interesting bar.

Finally it all comes together...

Ciao,

Claudio

Hello!

Very rare find.Thanks for showing.Never seen this before.

All the best

Nesredep

[dedehansen]

Hallo Claudio,

my contribution

2 place medal bar with clasp IR 75 and battleclasp Frankreich

Ciao

Andreas

[JBeltram]

Hello,

Here is one for the list.

Regards,

Jody

[j-sk]

Hi Gents,

Here is some Weimar "stuff" to be added to the list.

Please note that the group of 8 - with two unit bars on the Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz..! : Garde Husaren Rgt and Garde Grenadier Rgt 1 - was lacking the Iron cross 2nd class and the Prussian 15 years service when I bought it. They were obviously removed after 1934 to be eventually reaffixed on a "3er Ordensspange" (EK2, 15 years service and Frontkämpferkreuz). After much thinking, I decided to fill both gaps and restore thee group's "original" appearance. Have I done the right thing or not...? I suppose some will consider it as a crime, some other will approve my decision... anyway. Regarding the Prussian 15 years service in grey metal, traces and bits of thread left by the former cross led me to this choice.

Jean-Sam.

[Guest Rick Research]

Perfectly fine-- absolutely no question those are what went in there--and this was not a museum piece to a celebrity where every broken bit of original needed to be left as is. You've done a great job of restoration..

[j-sk]

Dear forumites,

In this thread I'd like to show you some of my bars of the Weimar time.

Here we go with the first one:

? Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2. Klasse am K?mpferband (OEK 1904) mit inoffiziellen Feldzugsspange ?Somme?, ?Paris?, ?Ypern?, ?Durchbruchsschlacht? und ?Belgien?

? Weimarer Republik, Deutsche Ehrendenkm?nze des Weltkrieges mit Kampfabzeichen der Ehrenlegion (DN 2.02.17 a/b)

? Weimarer Republik, Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz, mit der Spange des Gren. Regt. 3 (DN 2.02.21 a)

? ?sterreich 1. Republik, Pro Patria-Ehrenzeichen der ?sterreichischen Erenlegion mit gekreutzen Schwerterauflage am Bande

? Weimarer Republik, Kyffh?user-Kriegsdenkm?nze 1914-18 mit Frontk?mpferabzeichen, Schwertern am Band (DN 2.02.33 a/b)

Please feel also free to post yours and I would be happy to hear your comments on my bars.

Claudio

Hello Claudio,

Generally speaking, I find your "Ordensspangen" quite spectacular. Regarding the group mounted by Reimann though, I found it weird to find the 1870/71 Prussian war medal clasp PARIS among the other typical Flandernkreuz ones, since no German troops ever entered into Paris in WW1...

Jean-Sam.

[Claudio]

Hello Jean-Sam,

I find it also strange. My brother, who also collects, doesn't like the bars on the IC. But on the other hand in the 20ies it was pretty much left to anyone initiative to "decorate" their bars as much as possible, especailly if they were members of several veteran groups. Now in this case it's even more strange, because as we all know Paris was never taken by the Germans. Or maybe the veteran wanted to say with that, that he founght on the Marne close to Paris in the early stages of the war.

I only hope that this bar wasn't added later...

ciao,

C

[j-sk]

Hello Claudio,

I guess it's that part of mystery hidden behind these Weimar medal bars, linked to the personal experience of the wearer... almost as eloquent as a "Soldbuch"...

'Bye

Jean-Sam.

[j-sk]

Talking about "weird" groups, I wonder how far one can go to do some restoration work on a group that has obviously been "touched".

Two years ago (June 2011), I bought the following group at Kuenker's auction.

It was sold "as is" (see the picture on the left).

After the original wearer (or his heirs) sold this group, someone had the obnoxious idea to "reassemble" the medals, removing the SMS MARS clasp from its blue ribbon and shift it onto the the "Flandernkreuz" ribbon (this latter cross disappearing in the process, being replaced by a "Treu dem Regiment" cross...!!!) and filling this new gap with a Prussian 15 Years cross.

I could only guess - but my guess is as good as anyone's - that the new owner thought it weird to find the SMS MARS clasp on what he considered erroneously to be a "long service ribbon". It looks like he removed the five trapez plates from the back plate, remove carefully the SMS MARS clasp (without braking the shanks which is quite an achievement on its own), slid it in its new position (not fixing it) on the Flandernkreuz ribbon and reassembled the lot... the wrong way as far as the overlapping of the medals is concered.

I have therefore decided to give this group its original appearance. Quite a challenge considering the risk of breaking the shanks. I reaffixed the SMS MARS bar and the "Bewährungsabzeichen" using the holes which originally were left in the ribbons and replaced the 15 Years service cross by a Flandernkreuz as well as a the "Treu dem Regiment" by a "Treu der Marine" cross (see the other pictures, observe and reverse, for the result).

Was I right...? Was I wrong...? I personally thought it was acceptable since the group had already been "transformed".

Jean-Sam.

Edited July 21, 2013 by j-sk

[j-sk]

An interesting photo of a mixed official and unofficial Weimar grouping seen on the Internet recently. See the unofficial medal (reverse) placed right after the EK2 and before two official long service crosses (officers' 25 years and NCO's 15 years) which in turn precede the Order of the Crown medal.

Everything seemed possible between 1919 and 1933...

[Claudius]

Talking about "weird" groups, I wonder how far one can go to do some restoration work on a group that has obviously been "touched".

Two years ago (June 2011), I bought the following group at Kuenker's auction.

It was sold "as is" (see the picture on the left).

After the original wearer (or his heirs) sold this group, someone had the obnoxious idea to "reassemble" the medals, removing the SMS MARS clasp from its blue ribbon and shift it onto the the "Flandernkreuz" ribbon (this latter cross disappearing in the process, being replaced by a "Treu dem Regiment" cross...!!!) and filling this new gap with a Prussian 15 Years cross.

I could only guess - but my guess is as good as anyone's - that the new owner thought it weird to find the SMS MARS clasp on what he considered erroneously to be a "long service ribbon". It looks like he removed the five trapez plates from the back plate, remove carefully the SMS MARS clasp (without braking the shanks which is quite an achievement on its own), slid it in its new position (not fixing it) on the Flandernkreuz ribbon and reassembled the lot... the wrong way as far as the overlapping of the medals is concered.

I have therefore decided to give this group its original appearance. Quite a challenge considering the risk of breaking the shanks. I reaffixed the SMS MARS bar and the "Bewährungsabzeichen" using the holes which originally were left in the ribbons and replaced the 15 Years service cross by a Flandernkreuz as well as a the "Treu dem Regiment" by a "Treu der Marine" cross (see the other pictures, observe and reverse, for the result).

Was I right...? Was I wrong...? I personally thought it was acceptable since the group had already been "transformed".

Jean-Sam.

Hello Jean-Sam;

I think you did the right thing! As a practice I don't like "fiddling" with medalbars, but that is in respect to how the owner had his medals mounted, and the tarnishing and dirty ribbons that they take on. It seems obvious that someone, other than the owner "fiddled" with the bar.

The old sailor that had this bar was obviously proud of his service on the SMS Mars. I don't know which "SMS Mars" it was, but I don't think either ship had much WWI combat service. This makes this old sailor’s pride in his service aboard this ship all the more poignant. He wasn't bragging about being at Jutland or a surface raider. This was his ship, and that is enough for his own satisfaction.

I salute him and a" thumbs up" to you for restoring the bar properly.

[j-sk]

Hello Jean-Sam;

I think you did the right thing! As a practice I don't like "fiddling" with medalbars, but that is in respect to how the owner had his medals mounted, and the tarnishing and dirty ribbons that they take on. It seems obvious that someone, other than the owner "fiddled" with the bar.

The old sailor that had this bar was obviously proud of his service on the SMS Mars. I don't know which "SMS Mars" it was, but I don't think either ship had much WWI combat service. This makes this old sailor’s pride in his service aboard this ship all the more poignant. He wasn't bragging about being at Jutland or a surface raider. This was his ship, and that is enough for his own satisfaction.

I salute him and a" thumbs up" to you for restoring the bar properly.

Here is an interesting link about SMS MARS:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Mars_(1877)

It looks like she was too old to actually take an active part in WW1.

[Claudius]

Here is an interesting link about SMS MARS:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Mars_(1877)

It looks like she was too old to actually take an active part in WW1.

SMS Mars may refer to one of two ships in the German and Austro-Hungarian Navies:

• SMS Mars (1877), a German gunnery training ship in the 19th century
• SMS Tegetthoff (1878), an Austro-Hungarian central battery ship, renamed Mars in 1912

If I had to choose, I would guess the ex-Austro-Hungarian ship. The gentleman with the bar earned an EKI for WWI service, had the bar made after the war with Weimar medals. He was obviously proud of his service on SMS Mars -regardless of how little "action" it saw during the war.

[j-sk]

I thought about it. But I expected this (supposedly) sailor to wear at least one Austro-Hungarian medal in his group......??? Still, whether he was German or Austrian, the part of mystery behind this group makes his history the more interesting...... especially the quest for more information.

[Claudius]

... to wear at least one Austro-Hungarian medal in his group......???

not necessarily. This is an Imperial German ship of the Kaiserliche Marine. Remember, this ship was RENAMED the MARS in 1912, presumably when it transferred ownership to Germany. A new name and a new (German) crew.

[Glenn J]

He is wearing the uniform of a German Deckoffizier. The SMS Mars was struck from the rolls of German Warships in February 1914. An armed trawler of that name served with the North Sea Screening Flotilla during the war.

Regards

Glenn