Soviet Researched Order of Service to the Motherland Group

[NavyFCO]

deleted

Edited December 25, 2007 by NavyFCO

[NavyFCO]

deleted

Edited December 25, 2007 by NavyFCO

[Guest Rick Research]

And of course the "xerox" (grayscale?) obliterates the watermarks on the relevant pages.

Busted.

[new world]

I posted this on the other forum, but since not everyone travels between both, I'm posting it here for the many lessons to be learned from it...

I had originally thought that this faked up book had been pulled off by a Russian. After all, only they could have the good handwriting to make this look convincing. Nope...it was someone who was good with a photo editing program. In fact, I'd even go as far as say that it was NOT a Russian since I think most Russians would simply write (or stamp) the award into the document...

I now know how the fake document was made. I thought the writing looked really familiar and that scan...that scan just looked too familiar... So, digging through 15,000+ .jpgs on my computer, loooooky what I found!

First is the original scan, that was lifted off my website, compared with the photocopy. You can see where the blemishes from the scan line up PERFECTLY. The number is coincidentally similar...easily done with photoshop. Likewise for changing the year on the date...

Dave,

Also, if you compare serial numbers of the books from your web site and xerox copy - they are almost exactly the SAME digits, just shuffled around.

Amazing what Photoshop can do.

William

Edited December 24, 2007 by new world

[Christophe]

Hi,

Nothing to add, here, as many things have already been said... And probably more to come in this Forum or the other one...

Ed, thi is a sad story, but IMHO, not sad enough to lead us of the collecting domain. We have to be vigilant even more, and what happened here is reaching high level of "creativity"...

BTW, Dave, congrats!! You are better than Sherlock Holmes!!! ...and 15.000 JPGs... Pfouuuu!!

Cheers.

Ch.

[Guest andrew67]

Great detective work Dave above and beyond the call of duty. 15K of jpegs and you found it is a top effort. Another scammer unveiled and another one amongst genuine collectors.

I am sick of these parastic scammers , personally I think they should be strung up. The one I referred to over the road isnt a member here that I can see as I just searched your member list. Which is a comfort to me.

[Ed_Haynes]

Now that all discussion of this issue has been forbidden on That Other Forum, at least we can still discuss things here. Sad.

[NavyFCO]

deleted

Edited December 25, 2007 by NavyFCO

[Lapa]

Marc, it's good to see you here!

Thanks Bryan! There sure is a lot of known faces around

Marc

[Lapa]

...I would like to find out just who the dealer was who created this fantasy group so we can all avoid them. I sincerely hope we can do that...

Dave,

I wouldn't be overly surprized if it turned out to be a collector rather than an established dealer. Sometimes, silence speaks louder than many words, if you get my drift...

Marc

[Guest andrew67]

It was unfortunate that one particular person had to hijack the thread to talk about their own issues. Despite all of our best attempts to steer it back to the Homeland group (openly and over PM), it wasn't possible.

I would like to find out just who the dealer was who created this fantasy group so we can all avoid them. I sincerely hope we can do that.

Ahh well... Merry Christmas to all!

Dave

For my own issues ? Try for the benefit of all collectors ! The discussion was on topic when it was closed and had been for hours.

Edited December 25, 2007 by andrew67

[Ed_Haynes]

I am in no position to make formal decisions on anything, having no authority

What I would say is this: If you cannot maintain a gentlemanly and respectful tone, please do not post. This is not a place for abuse. (But this is just me speaking.)

May we PLEASE stay on topic. If you cannot discern the topic (perhaps by reading the title), then this may be another good reason not to post.

[Guest andrew67]

Despite all of our best attempts to steer it back to the Homeland group (openly and over PM), it wasn't possible.

Dave

The topic was clearly back on topic and was on topic when closed by Art.

I wouldn't be overly surprized if it turned out to be a collector rather than an established dealer. Sometimes, silence speaks louder than many words, if you get my drift...

Marc

Marc , I think you are dead right there and I dread to think how many other people this has been done to. It's frightening to see just what you can do with good software such as Adobe Photoshop and the fact that it fooled so many collectors , enthusiasts and dealers is frightening to say the least.

If it is who most suspect it to be , perhaps we should organise to go through all his sale posts both here and in Ed's words , " That other forum " and try and alert some of his buyers and perhaps they can post photos here so they can be looked in to.

I know this person also sells on Ebay as I saw him selling a medal with research last week. If it can be proven that this not just a one off crime , many on Ebay have probably also been taken for a ride.

Edited December 25, 2007 by andrew67

[NavyFCO]

You know, it's people like you Andrew who can't resist name calling and threats. Very sad.

I'm sorry this is the new "accepted" direction of Soviet award collecting.

For the entire board: Enjoy Soviet collecting without me.

Merry Christmas.

Dave

[Guest andrew67]

I am in no position to make formal decisions on anything, having no authority

What I would say is this: If you cannot maintain a gentlemanly and respectful tone, please do not post. This is not a place for abuse. (But this is just me speaking.)

May we PLEASE stay on topic. If you cannot discern the topic (perhaps by reading the title), then this may be another good reason not to post.

Ok , we will see what eventuates. As to " abuse " , I will reply only to anything directed at me.

I think the lack of reply from one party perhaps confirms Marc's hint as to who has done this. I might have a look through some of his previous sales and see if I can piece together any other groups that may have been added to.

*I wont reply to the last post as per Ed's instruction.

Edited December 25, 2007 by andrew67

[Ed_Haynes]

I'm sorry this is the new "accepted" direction of Soviet award collecting.

For the entire board: Enjoy Soviet collecting without me.

I hope this isn't the shape of things to come, Dave. I must assume is is just one persistent voice. I still believe there is an ethical core to the field.

[Paul R]

Dave,

I have learned much from you, as I am sure many others have. Please do not leave.

Paul

[Guest Rick Research]

"A question for Ed Haynes in regards to this sites policy - are we free to discuss this issue here ?"

If by "this issue" you mean airing the internal dirty linen from any place else the final and definitive answer is

NO.

If you mean by publicly or privately abusing members of unparalleled depth of knowledge the final and definitive answer is

NO.

There is no one active online anywhere in the world who I am aware of who can claim greater experience and integrity than NavyFCO.

Abuse will not be tolerated here, publicly or privately.

Any reply in any form whatsoever will be taken as direct and FINAL violation of this final and only warning. End whatever vendettas are carried over offsite NOW AND FOREVER.

For anyone having problems with PMs of an unwanted nature from anyone who they do not wish to have anything to do with:

1) My Controls

2) PM Block List

3) add name.

[Bob]

Thank you all. As the initiator of this thread (as well as it's "dead" twin on soviet-awards), I'd appreciate if future posts in this thread focus only on the topic of this thread - i.e. the "Researched Order of Service to the Motherland Group" which has been up for debate for a few days now.

All other topics: either start a different thread OR communicate your thoughts offline (PM, email, etc.) to whomever you want to OR reconsider completely whether they require communicating.

Please (as of now!) no responses anymore to this post or any other post that went "off topic" in this thread.

Thank you,

Bob

PS update: no response to any of my PM's or emails to Mark Signa. No new post by him either despite visits to soviet-awards.com. I understand it's Christmas time but obviously, considering the severity of the topic at hand, with each passing day I am increasingly inclined to draw a definitive conclusion based on the facts / analysis as presented thusfar. I'll contact relevant moderators on soviet-awards.com to ask if they've been informed offline of the dealer supposedly responsible for the first "fabrication".

[Lapa]

...PS update: no response to any of my PM's or emails to Mark Signa. No new post by him either despite visits to soviet-awards.com. I understand it's Christmas time but obviously, considering the severity of the topic at hand, with each passing day I am increasingly inclined to draw a definitive conclusion based on the facts / analysis as presented thusfar. I'll contact relevant moderators on soviet-awards.com to ask if they've been informed offline of the dealer supposedly responsible for the first "fabrication"...

Bob,

Each passing second simply conforts me in my opinion as previously stated

Marc

[seb16trs]

This is, I guess, some sort of resolution. Time to collect other things . . . .

the temptation to do so is extremly strong in that kind of black day...

[new world]

the temptation to do so is extremly strong in that kind of black day...

Other things / collecting fields also suffer from fakes and unethical sellers...

[Bryan]

If other people have directly bought from Mark Signa in the past, I would recommand them to review their groups! He openly says he is adding medals and badges to groups.

[new world]

Any updates on the story?

Bob, Alex, Mark?

[Bob]

Any updates on the story?

Bob, Alex, Mark?

I received "zero" response to my multitude of (polite by the way) emails / PMs to Mark requesting clarification. Nor, last time I checked, has he come back with a follow-up post to his first (and only) reply in the soviet-awards thread - a reply which increased the storm rather then lighten it.

Mark has been logged in to the soviet-awards forum so I don't think he can claim ignorance.

I have sent the "group" back to Alex last week and he'll refund upon receipt.

I think this is where the story ends...