Imperial fakes

[AOK4]

And look at what's he selling now...

I don't believe that combination, especially with the lonely Finnish campaign medal. And the ribbons seem very new to me as well.

[redeagleorder]

Yes, i did see this medal bar on ebay for sale when i was having a look-see a couple of days ago. What struck me first about it was the fact that if you count them there are awards from prussia, mecklenburg-schwerin, mecklenburg strelitz, lippe-detmoldt, anhalt, lubeck, bremen, hamburg, brunswick and finally hesse. This is a total of 10 different states represented on this bar , not to mention the different countries like WW1 germany, Nazi Germany, Bulgaria, Austria-Hungary, Finland etc...

Also, correct me if i am wrong, but with the amount of awards that I am seeing here, he should have had a higher grade award, such as a house order of hohenzollern or a Red Eagle fourth class.

In my humble opinion, this leaves this bar with three possibilities:

A: This belonged to some super guy who fought in a host of places, but if that is true then why doesn't he have higher grade awards?

B: This was the Kaiser's secondary bar for when he lost his normal one

C: It is a fake, an assessment which i am sure most of you will agree with me about. The only question is, is this a fake bar made up of genuine medals, or a completely fake creation? Considering the fact that it is made up of awards which relatively don't cost that much, i am inclined to think that some of the medals may be original. However, i'll leave this to those more experienced then me to verify.

Wow, that was longer than i thought it was going to be,

Matthew

[Wild Card]

B: This was the Kaiser's secondary bar for when he lost his normal one

That is along the line of my initial reaction.

At first glance, I thought that the Kaiser's bar had come back on the market.

[Claudius]

That is along the line of my initial reaction.

At first glance, I thought that the Kaiser's bar had come back on the market.

Whoever is making these medal bars for AM-Militaria is certainly working very hard to get them to look right. There is some good technique here. I wouldn't care to educate him (or her) on what he can do to get it better.

Normally, medal bar collectors examine a bar to review the "authenticating clues" that coincide with the same clues from known specimens. If the collecting community had a Fraud Division I would like them to autopsy these known fakes to discover all the Faker's clues to his construction so that it can be used to discover other fakes.

[misiu]

comment / question to post no. 57: why is the German-Finnish bar a fake? The two Finnish awards are at the end and there are two Finnish medals which could have been awarded for participation in Finnish Liberation war.

Regards

Detlef

[Chris Boonzaier]

Not something you will fall for when you have it in your hand, but a bad photo of the front on ebay can make you waste money....

[drspeck]

Any thoughts on this seller?

http://www.ebay.de/csc/nickelmax1/m.html?rt=nc&LH_Complete=1&_fln=1&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3911.c0.m283

Regards,

Peter

[saschaw]

Any thoughts on this seller?

http://www.ebay.de/c...d=p3911.c0.m283

Regards,

Peter

I didn't see anything I did not like. But was outbid on some...

:(

[drspeck]

I didn't see anything I did not like. But was outbid on some...

I might be to blame for some of your outbidding

I'll make it up to you by posting images of some bars in a different section of the forum when they arrive

Regards,

Peter

[saschaw]

This huge medal bar is, if my memory serves me right, also from our Vienna friend. Unfortunately I cannot find it in my files to be 100% sure. Still 98,5%, without finding it.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/130620879932

[christerd]

The worst thing is when the Medal bars change hands two or three times from the original "bad" seller When they are

quite good they could easily fool some collectors .... I belive saschav is right about the Ebay one ....

Ps

Good catch Peter ! I really loved they Bavarian Bar

Christer

[saschaw]

Same with these ones:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280795668104

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280795670073

[drspeck]

Bars came in today and have been posted in this topic:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/52644-ribbon-bars/

Regards,

Peter

I might be to blame for some of your outbidding

I'll make it up to you by posting images of some bars in a different section of the forum when they arrive

Regards,

Peter

[redeagleorder]

I believe this medal bar to be a fake, based on the gold baden merit medal and the bavaria cross, which has the belt buckle fully enamelled. Any opinions?

Matthew

[saschaw]

At last, both (actually, also the EK2) are not awarded ones, but later private purchase examples.

The fact that there are no (zero!) awards of this Baden medal known, makes this group highly suspicious.

However, the ribbons and sewing don't look to bad for mid-1930s.

[Troy Tempest]

Take a look at the Recently Sold list of "raeritaetensammlerclub" and you will see the largest selection of fake german orders and badges matched up with the stupidest buyers on ebay. It is scary how good the Bavarian MVOs are compared to his garbage only a few years ago. Where is he getting them???

http://completed.sho...d=p3911.c0.m283

If he doesn't have it, he can have it made for you!

That's an extremely harsh and totally unwarranted thing to say about people who have bought from him on ebay. I suggest to you that just because someone isn't a member of a forum, or for that matter, aren't even aware that this, or the handful of other similar sites even exist, hardly makes them stupid. If you are a young or even old, but still a new or inexperienced buyer, and you find a seller with very high feedback numbers, and is rated at 100%, and the items sure look good (some even to the trained eye, as attested to here), why, according to you, does that make you one of the stupidest buyers on ebay if you then buy something from these dodgy dealers? I sure made mistakes when I started collecting. I've bought fakes, been ripped off, paid way too much etc. It's a learning curve. The internet has been a boon for collectors like me, the amount I have learnt from people here and elsewhere has proved invaluable. However, for years I didn't even know about this or any other collectors sites. I guess I was also one of the stupidest people on ebay. Maybe you were born perfect, good for you. Unfortunately most of us weren't.

[Chris Boonzaier]

That's an extremely harsh and totally unwarranted thing to say about people who have bought from him on ebay. I suggest to you that just because someone isn't a member of a forum, or for that matter, aren't even aware that this, or the handful of other similar sites even exist, hardly makes them stupid.

Hi Troy,

see it as general frustration that this seller keeps suckering people and noone leaves a bad comment on ebay.... all the buyers must eventually find out what bollx they are buying.

[Wild Card]

I sure made mistakes when I started collecting. I've bought fakes, been ripped off, paid way too much etc. It's a learning curve. The internet has been a boon for collectors like me, the amount I have learnt from people here and elsewhere has proved invaluable. However, for years I didn't even know about this or any other collectors sites.

I have to put myself in this category. At the same time, I had the good fortune of "growing up" under the guidance of Eric Ludvigsen and George Seymour, so minimal damage was done.

Hi Troy,

see it as general frustration that this seller keeps suckering people and noone leaves a bad comment on ebay.... all the buyers must eventually find out what bollx they are buying.

I also completely agree with this statement. I am often frustrated when I see "innocent" collectors fleeced by the same crooks time after time. It is unfortunate that these people cannot join the information mainstream. Feel sorry for that, not their lack of knowledge.

[Troy Tempest]

Hi Chris and Wildcard

Thanks for your thoughtful replies, and I agree wholeheartedly with both of your sentiments. I just found the branding of people who should or should not know any different as being the stupidest people on ebay somewhat offensive. The first word of this sites name is Gentleman's, and that is not a gentlemanly way of addressing un or under educated collectors I have been away for some time, and look forward to posting photos of my collections, and helping out where I can. I am, good sirs, a gentleman!

[marrauder]

Just yesterday, raritaetensammlerclub sold EK1 1870 B core for more than 600 euros. I didn´t bid it (combination of lack of sources and awareness of this buyer learned on forums), but despite of it I would like to know what do you think about this piece. Core looks good (except of being painted) and hardware is far from what I saw on good EK1 A cores. But in fact I have never seen good B core hardware.

Thanks in advance

Link: http://www.ebay.de/itm/OEK-1903-Eisernes-Kreuz-1-Klasse-1870-/140692265103?pt=Militaria&hash=item20c1e9988f

[Troy Tempest]

I have noted the concerns of others here about this trader, however, I have also seen items that I am interested in. For instance, these miniatures. Could anyone give me an opinion please? I don't have issues with the prices, but I'm uncertain of the genuineness of them, bearing in mind previous posts here. Thanks in advance gents!

http://www.ordensammler.com/html/miniaturen.html

[Troy Tempest]

I'm also keen on some of these, again, I would appreciate any opinions either way

http://www.ordensammler.com/html/feldspangen.html

[saschaw]

The club is know for his cast fake of the 1870 type B core.

Some of the miniatures and ribbon bars might indeed be real. But why buy from such a person? I won't even order a piece of ribbon for 3 Euros from him anymore.

All from his offer I'm confident with is standard stuff. And standard stuff I prefer to buy from other sellers.

[Troy Tempest]

Hmm, so because I ask for other peoples help, which I foolishly thought was improving my knowledge, I thought this was the way to go, because contrary to your claim that I should ask them why they think what they do about a certain piece, you are wrong. People who know what they are talking about will tell me, and in a helpful and courteous fashion, as opposed to you, why and how they feel the way about that piece. This is called learning. This in no way means I am now dependent on being spoon fed? As for your ridiculous claim that I will send out desperate emails next time I'm standing in the middle of a military show, I've never been to one. As a matter of fact, if you could find when the next one is in my city, I'd appreciate it. I have never seen one advertised here. Perhaps there has been the odd one, but they are certainly not done in the numbers you find in the states or the UK.

When I bought my first car and my first bike, and my first surfboard, and my first drum kit, and my first guitar and my first shotgun, guess what? I took along someone who was knowledgeable in all those fields. I valued their expertise, and learnt from it. How does that make me dependent on them, and failing to think for myself? I don't know any other collectors here, I haven't been to any collectors shows, or even seen them advertised, so how exactly would I have learnt without asking people on this and other sites? Now for your assertion that his items don't look good to the trained eye, they only look good to the delusional and the ignorant.

Posted 20 September 2011 - 03:15

I agree with Garfordhouse the quality seems to get better Some of the stuff I have seen recently I could easily bought if just the seller had been someone else

Arrgh this moron destroy our hobby .....

Christer

By your rationale Christer is both deluded AND ignorant. I find your aggressive and rude replies contrary to how I was brought up. I see nothing wrong with asking for advice here, and until I had the misfortune to encounter you, I had never once been told NOT to continue to ask any questions I may have here. Nobody, except you, has accused me of seeking to be spoon fed anything, and I have certainly never been accused of failing to think for myself because I ask questions. In all the time I was at university, the standard assertion from our lecturers was there is no such thing as a stupid question, just a stupid answer. I have tried to follow that advice whenever anyone seeks my advice about anything. Until you that is. It is people like you, with attitudes like yours, that drive people away from this site. It had been some time since I was last here, because I had the misfortune to encounter someone such as yourself, and within days of returning, I have encountered the same boorish manner from you. I will not interact with you again, can you do me the courtesy and do the same for me. As the site name implies, I do try to behave like a gentleman.

If there are any other people who also feel I shouldn't ask questions and seek the advice of others who know far more than I do, please let me know. But speak slowly and use small words because, after all, I am one of the stupidest people on ebay, who also can't think for myself and likes to be spoon fed :)

Edited February 7, 2012 by Troy Tempest

[marrauder]

If I was in the middle of big military show somewhere in Germany, I would send message through mobile internet to the forum and I believe in ten minutes there would be the answer from saschaw: Mmm, it´s a fake, I´ve already seen it before ten minutes.

Hehe.

But seriously, there are things I am sure with, there are others that I am unsure, so I am asking. Sometimes I am asking abut things I am not about to buy, just want to know it for the future. Being on militaria show is similar to picking mushrooms - If there is somebody who can help you, you can pick all mushrooms that are not poisonous. If you are alone, you pick only those you are sure with. Very easy.

Spoon feeding is the beginning of independence also in common life, not only in militaria collecting. I understand you, garfordhouse, and I am also sometimes angry that people on forums answer very briefly, sometimes only yes or not, without saying why. But don´t forget, there is no law that would force experienced collectors to help us. It is only their free will.