Württemberg 11er ribbon bar

[M Hunter]

Gentlemen,

Here is a ribbon bar I was looking at last night.

I have four questions:

-Shouldn't the Württemberg ribbon have a device for Officer's decoration(4th ribbon)?

-Shouldn't the Württemberg ribbon precede the Friedrich Order?

-Does the Austrian Crown Order device look ok?

-Is this a Godet ribbon bar (note the clasp and pin)?

I assume this ribbon bar was made post 1938 as the two Austrian Orders have been bumped up before the Honour Cross.

Thank you

Matt

[Deruelle]

Hi Matt,

For me there is a lot of mistakes in this bar. First, you note it, the green crown on the Miliar Verdienstorden. here we read that this ribbon is for the silver merit medal (for men and NCO). Of course if is for an officer ribbon it should be just after the ribbon of iron cross. We see that on several ribbon bars. But sometimes it arrives that this ribbon is on thrid position.

Bref. The makers used a lot of swords devices, not the same at all. Very strange and why ?

On the back it seems to have a red colour backing on the Hindenburg cross ? Why ? Where is it ?

To be honest, there is a lot of questions wihtout answers, so for my own part I won't bid on it. Keep your money to buy better one.

Just my two cents

Christophe

We need a better close up of the device for the Austrian Iron Crown, but it seems to be a fake.

[Dave Danner]

The Friedrich-Orden before the other Württemberg ribbon would usually indicate a Silver Bravery Medal to a Fähnrich or the like, and then the WF3bX as a Leutnant or Lt.d.R.. But all those other awards, especially the Iron Crown, scream "general staff officer". That seems a little implausible.

[M Hunter]

Thank you both for taking a look. This item was brought to my attention on WAF e-stand. I don't frequent the site but some collector friends let me know if medal or ribbon bars with Hansa Crosses come up for sale. I am told the ribbon bar is now on hold....

Maybe the buyer will see this thread.

Best wishes

Matt

[saschaw]

Not a bar I'd buy.

[Chris Taylor]

Hello all,

This was my bar which I was disappointed to just have to let go. I purchased it a few years ago from Rick Versailles, and to best of my knowledge (and his) it's OK.

I beleive he is a member on this forum & I would love to here his input.

Regards,

Chris

[M Hunter]

Hello all,

This was my bar which I was disapointed to just have to go. I purchased it a few years ago from Rick Versailles, and to best of my knowledge (and his) it's OK.

I beleive he is a member on this forum & I would love to here his input.

Regards,

Chris

Dear Chris,

Thank you for posting. Has the buyer been made aware of the concerns raised in this thread?

Best wishes

Matt

Edited February 6, 2012 by M Hunter

[Chris Taylor]

Yes he has Matt, as a matter of fact he was was the one who informed my of this thread.

Regards,

Chris

[Stogieman]

Bonjour Christophe! There's absolutely nothing wrong with this bar..... the use of different types of swords can be documented on hundreds and hundreds of original, period bars.

Having said that..... is a healthy amount of paranoia required? Absolutely.

One of the major reasons I stepped away from selling was the fact that more and more reproductions, fakes and utter crap started creeping into the market.

Please note in the examples below I have included my original image of the bar when I sold it. I stood behind this bar then and continue to now. As an aside, Rick Research vetted every ribbon bar I ever sold. For whatever that's worth.

I have sold over 1700 ribbon bars when I was actively dealing and I actually have photos of most of them still! I can post additional examples of original, period bars with multiple types of swordes on them if you'd like.

Is it perfect? No, these types of bars fall under what we used to call in the old days "The Ugly"

Hope this helps, Best regards, Rick

[Chris Taylor]

Hello Rick,

Hope all has been well with you. Thanks for replying here & confirming what I already knew.

I too still have a print out with the photo & description from your original sales post, I can be a bit anal about keeping records!

On a side note, I also just let go the 9 banger you have pictured above this one in your post with the Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischer Hausorden & the Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross w/"Vor Dem Feinde" clasp.

Now that I think about it, it seems like quite a few of the ribbon bars in my collection came via your sales on the WAF.

Those were the days.

Anyway, thanks again.

Regards,

Chris

[saschaw]

No problem about the different swords used on one bar, but the combination of awards is not really possible, as explained by Dave Danner.

Nor can I find a possible wearer, of course...

[Stogieman]

_{Chris, if you're unhappy with the bar, you can send it back. You know where to find me via eMail. Mailing address has changed. PM me and I'll give it to you. As far as the ID goes.... last time I checked, not every bar is possible to ID.}

[Alan]

Hello Everyone,

I have found this to be an interesting thread as this is a bar I have brought from Chris recently.

As a novice in this area of collecting I really welcome the comments made by you all.

Now that I have the bar in hand I hope to address some points raised.

Firstly I have taken a pic of the Austrian Iron Crown device

Edited February 10, 2012 by Alan

[Alan]

Here is a pic of an Iron Crown device from another bar I have

[Alan]

A pic of the red colour backing for Christophe

[Daniel Krause]

Hi friends,

I waited a while to see "where the thread will go".

As Rick L. always said, there are 3 types of ribbon bars - the good, the bad and the ugly. This one here belongs to the ugly.

Only thing I would like here is a proper inspection of the back.

The bar is odd but legit and it is even ID-able. I will give no more details until it found a final "home".

Best regards

Daniel

P.S. Stogie - nice to see that You are still "alive" :-)

[Claudio]

Well I rather have a good than a ugly ribbon bar, but if a ugly ribbon bar comes with a rock solid id or even better with a picture of the original wearer of the bar, even better. But with so much knowledge concerning ribbon bars circulating around in the collecting community, especially also thanks to this forum, any collectors with pieces of original ribbons and devices can quite easily fake a bar.

I know I am little anal, but I also prefer ribbon bars with fabric covering the sewing on the back, although especially Württemberg ribbon bars and some Saxon didn't always cover the reverse... they were quite conservative with spending money and quite efficient (why do you need to cover the back with fabric when nobody will notice while you're wearing it!)... they are still stingy nowadays (like us Swiss)... ;-)

ciao,

Claudio

[Stogieman]

Well, that bar is returning to me. All shall be revealed.........

[Stogieman]

BTW..... it's not being returned because there's something wrong with the bar.

Now that the recipient has been ID'd, I have purchased the bar back from Chris.

Just so we're all clear on that point. The bar is good, has been ID'd and I am quite thrilled to have it coming back. i don't let a General Staff officer slip through my hands very often!

:whistle:

[Ulsterman]

Has it come home yet? RR told me who it is......... :Cat-Scratch:

[Stogieman]

Still waiting. I have a CD full of records on him. Hoping Daniel or maybe Dave can dig a picture out at the archives! :whistle:

[M Hunter]

Still waiting. I have a CD full of records on him. Hoping Daniel or maybe Dave can dig a picture out at the archives!

Is this ribbon bar not with Alan from NZ?

Either way, glad to hear that you gents have found the original wearer.

Best wishes

Matt

[Ulsterman]

I think this one was identified @ 10 years ago. I seem to remember fondling this ribbon bar (gently- and I think he made me wear gloves too) in a parking lot in Lowell @ a decade ago.

[Alan]

Hi Guys,

Matt, Its is on it's way back to Chris. I posted on the 16th of Feb so Chris should have in the next day or so.

I hope when the bar finds its new home that the we will get to see its full story.

[Arnim]

Did the bar ever arrive?

Who is the staff officer who earned these awards?