Paul C Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 A friend of mine recently picked this up. There are four decorations from Bayern on it. The more I look at it the more I think it may be identifiable if the SMK and LD2 can be tracked to a single person from Bayern. You thoughts?
Dave Danner Posted March 12, 2014 Posted March 12, 2014 No LD2. A Bavarian civilian/civil servant. The SMK is non-combatant, which narrows it down considerably. How many Bavarians with that one? The real rarity is the last one, the Schaumburg Lippe Order for Arts and Sciences 1st Class. Also, he placed the SMKNK ahead of the KLK, which is not Bavarian precedence, so he may have considered himself more a Meininger than a Bavarian. Maybe a Baurat/Architekt type, since these guys often got a variety of awards depending on where they designed buildings.
Paul C Posted March 12, 2014 Author Posted March 12, 2014 I checked the SMK NK list of which there are 390. His civil service job must/should have been in Bayern. I think the list of the Schaumburg Lippe Order for Arts and Sciences 1st Class may exists. If so, this guy can be found.
VtwinVince Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Spectacular and unusual combo on this one. Really great Schnalle.
Rogi Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Really interesting piece Thank you for sharing it with us
Paul R Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 Agreed. You have a first rate bar. Is there a way that you can please take photos of the bar on a white or natural colored backing?
Dave Danner Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 I am pretty sure I have him, although I haven't confirmed the war decorations. The four pre-war ones are a perfect match, though, for Royal Bavarian opera singer and professor Dr. Felix von Kraus. From the 1914 Bavarian Court and State Handbook: Six decorations are listed in the entry. Four of these are on the medal bar (remember, for a Frackspange you go from upper right to lower left). The Bavarian Order of St. Michael is at #3, the Bavarian Prinzregent Luitpold Medal is at #5, the Anhalt Albert the Bear is at #6 and the Schaumburg-Lippe Arts and Sciences is at #7. As for the two decorations in the entry which are not on the medal bar, the Hessen award was the pinback cross grade of this order, and the Mecklenburg-Schwerin medal was a neck decoration. The Saxe-Meiningen and Bavarian crosses at #1 and #2 were wartime awards, and the Golden Wedding Jubilee Medal at #4 was established in 1918. Bavaria stopped gazetting the König Ludwig Cross in 1917, so I'm not sure if that can be confirmed, but it is certainly possible for someone in his position. And he received the title of Kammersänger from the Duke of Saxe-Meiningen in 1897, so even if he doesn't show up in the Meiningen rolls (there are missing names), we can confirm a Meiningen connection. So I would say this is him.
Paul C Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 That is a very good match. I check the SMK NK list and he is not on it, but the rolls are not always 100%. Great Job Dave.
Claudio Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) Very nice bar… I also thought he must have been some sort of an artist (actor, singer,…). For sure he didn't have an uniform to wear the bar, so he had a civilian attire (Tuxedo) medal bar. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_von_Kraus http://www.historische-daten.de/projekte/museum/sterne/kraus.htm Edited March 13, 2014 by Claudio
Komtur Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 So I would say this is him. Me too I am cross about myself. I had this bar in my hands in Gunzenhausen twice and looked at it at the online shop lots of time. I could not find a name for the bar and had some doubts because of the curious fixed pin on reverse. And now we have an orderbar of a quite famous opera singer. I love these hard to identify civilians. What a find! Congrats to the new owner. Regards, Komtur. His entry from "Wer ist´s" of 1914.
Komtur Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) was it on Weitze's table at Gunzenhausen? Yupp. In 2012 and 2013 Edited March 13, 2014 by Komtur
Claudio Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 yeah… we're two banging their heads… thinking that it was for sale in front of our eyes during more than 2 years, also on his webpage… As you rightly said I was a bit turned off of the quite crude bar construction on the back… sometimes being "anal" doesn't pay off! (((
Komtur Posted March 13, 2014 Posted March 13, 2014 … sometimes being "anal" doesn't pay off! ((( sometimes
Paul C Posted March 13, 2014 Author Posted March 13, 2014 Thank you all for the help. The new owner will be very pleased with the information. It was recently purchased at the Show of Shows in Louisville, KY, USA.
Paul C Posted March 14, 2014 Author Posted March 14, 2014 Sometime looking for the mint condition medal bars you pass up the little gems that belonged to field marshalls!
Claudio Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 It's not particularly the mint conditions that I'm looking for… the construction of the bar, the combination of the awards and its plausibility … and last but not least who sells it! I've been burned a few times by some "premium" and "reputable" dealers or auctioneers, therefore I'm quite cautious… ;-)
Komtur Posted March 14, 2014 Posted March 14, 2014 It's not particularly the mint conditions that I'm looking for… the construction of the bar, the combination of the awards and its plausibility … and last but not least who sells it! I've been burned a few times by some "premium" and "reputable" dealers or auctioneers, therefore I'm quite cautious… ;-) Indeed! In that case it was a mixture of slight doubts, costiveness and stupidity that let me pass this little gem. As we say in our little country Strafe muss sein! Regards, Komtur.
Claudio Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 … ich wurde in meiner Sammlerkarriere genug gestraft worden…
Paul C Posted March 15, 2014 Author Posted March 15, 2014 It's not particularly the mint conditions that I'm looking for… the construction of the bar, the combination of the awards and its plausibility … and last but not least who sells it! I've been burned a few times by some "premium" and "reputable" dealers or auctioneers, therefore I'm quite cautious… ;-) Agreed.
Stogieman Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 Nice bit of combined effort and research. Beautiful bar. I like it and agree on the rarity. Quite a gem!
saschaw Posted March 15, 2014 Posted March 15, 2014 A stunning group I could have purchased several times, too... tried some research back than that failed, so I decided not to buy it. Thanks for the public ID job and congratulations to the new owner! Nice to see things work again here...
Paul C Posted March 16, 2014 Author Posted March 16, 2014 Does anyone remember what the price of the bar was?
Komtur Posted March 16, 2014 Posted March 16, 2014 Does anyone remember what the price of the bar was? Zeige Auction No 39 (24th of September 2011) limit 1.800 Euro and sold for 2.700 + 641 extra pay = 3.341 Euro. I´m not quite sure, but suppose Weitze offered the bar for something 4000+ Euro (4500?).
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