Belgium Belgium Croix de Guerre

[Tim B]

Anyway...back on topic.

This brings up the point: Why is it, that we do not see a lot of Belgian Croix de Guerre with multiple devices like the one shown above by Herman?

Tim

[Vatjan]

Because there aren't many Belgians who got multiple MID's.

Jan

[Tim B]

:lol: Hi Jan,

Why did I know that would probably be the answer!! Had to be some though!

Tim

[Tim B]

Kicking a dead horse I know, but...another one. This one is another earlier piece (IMO) based on the type of double A on the reverse and the cutout palms.

Tim

[IrishGunner]

No lions, no gold, no silver. Nothing special, just a Croix de Guerre (Oorlogskruis) w/ Bronze Palm for Army-level mentioned in dispatches

[TacHel]

What do you think of this "post 1954" cross. Are these mere attempts at producing one? Are they actual production items that simply haven't been awarded?

[Detlev]

Hello,

here you can see 3 different crowns on the CdG..

The middle one is from a French medalmaker 'Delande' approx 1930's

even the lions on the centerpiece are a bit different...

Detlev

[Carey]

Very nice Prosper! Always nice to have some history behind the item.

 

Nothing as nice here; another example of the WW1 CdG. I suspected this one might actually be a more modern strike (50's-60's) probably for a veteran's replacement piece. Confirmed with Hendrik and Bjorn that my suspicions were correct. Still, nice and posted here for example purposes. Note the pattern on the cross arms.

Tim

Hi Tim,

I'm trying to identify the exact maker of the CdG in a photograph of my Great-Grandfather. It's very difficult to make out the precise details, though the outline is reasonably clear. My ultimate goal is to buy one exactly the same (his medals are now lost). All the versions that I see on the internet seem to be slightly different in one way or another. The one you show above, that you think is a veteran's medal, is similar in many ways to his, but I find it hard to believe his is a replacement. What characteristics makes the above a replacement veteran's medal?

Thanks,

Carey.

[Tim B]

Hello Carey,

Well, the thread is a bit old but let's show some comparisons and see what you think.

First, a group of CdG and from this distance, does any one stand out a bit different from the rest?

If you click on the photo, you can see it enlarged and maybe see some difference?

Now, if you look at all of them, minor differences in some details which are probably attributed to manufacturer's but all except the one in question has more of a pebbling in the cross arms. 

Here's a close up of that one and one of the others with the pebbling.  Note also the overall finish of the one in question, to me and some others it appears more modern.

[graham]

More to add to this thread. I particularly like this one with a black bar to signify a posthumous award.

 

[graham]

Gold Palm and Lion:

 

[PREM]

Nice collection !

[graham]

Thanks PREM.

Another to add, this one has the Silver and Bronze Palm with a Bronze Lion.

 

[graham]

This one has a Silver Lion.

[graham]

Lastly just the naked ribbon.

 

[Shots Dave]

I finally managed to track down this lovely example of an English made version. There are lots of things to notice:

The way the ribbon is folded, the safety pin for a brooch, the crown (eg centre pips), the lion and most noticeable the one piece construction of the cross, no discs that can become detached.

[GM1]

Here a some of the war crosses in my collection: 

 

- 3 palms and 3 lions (belonging to an officer)

- 1 palm and 1 lion (also holds art. 4 with palm, being a great invalided soldier).

 

As you can see, the lions are different.
 

According the book of André Borné, and in his opinion, the cut out lions are for 1914-1918 while the encircled ones were used in 1940-1945. But as we can see in this topic, the encircled lions are also used on the 1914-1918 war crosses… any opinions or proofs of the use of the different lions are more than welcome!

 

Best regards,

 

GM1

 

 

[Graf]

Nice collections!

[VC89]

On 17/01/2022 at 15:37, GM1 said:

According the book of André Borné, and in his opinion, the cut out lions are for 1914-1918 while the encircled ones were used in 1940-1945. But as we can see in this topic, the encircled lions are also used on the 1914-1918 war crosses… any opinions or proofs of the use of the different lions are more than welcome!

 

André Borné's book is usually seen as the bible of official Belgian decorations but is has some mistakes in it, as can be expected by the size of it's content (remeber that it was published in 1985, before the internet, digitalization of documents and easy acces to pictures of collectors).

 

The lions are one of those mistakes. There are just too many examples of encircled lions on the warcross (1914).

 

An other collector once told me that the cost of cutting the lions out were higher than just leaving them encircled. He believes that the cutout ones were the first model but changed during the war to the cheaper encircled ones. If this is true and there is no papertrail of the change it might explain Borné's error as well.

 

Kind regards,

Vincent

[GM1]

1 hour ago, VC89 said:

 

André Borné's book is usually seen as the bible of official Belgian decorations but is has some mistakes in it, as can be expected by the size of it's content (remeber that it was published in 1985, before the internet, digitalization of documents and easy acces to pictures of collectors).

 

The lions are one of those mistakes. There are just too many examples of encircled lions on the warcross (1914).

 

An other collector once told me that the cost of cutting the lions out were higher than just leaving them encircled. He believes that the cutout ones were the first model but changed during the war to the cheaper encircled ones. If this is true and there is no papertrail of the change it might explain Borné's error as well.

 

Kind regards,

Vincent

Thanks Vicent! Probably we’ll never know, but the fact that the cut out lions were more expensive sounds reasonable. Don’t know if in the royal decrees a description is given of the lions. 

Best regards 

 

GM1

[Hendrik]

Hi Gents,

 

According to Borné, the Royal Decree of 15 december 1917, published in the "Belgisch Staatsblad"/"Moniteur Belge"  of 23 - 31 december 1917, does stipulate the lion device being cut out. It would be lovely to actually see a scan of the original published text of that decree ...

 

Regards,

Hendrik