GM1 Posted October 28, 2013 Posted October 28, 2013 Hi there: Below three Riemer-version Victory Medals. Note that each ball suspension is different. More pictures will follow tomorrow with better light. Any idea? Best regards, GM1
RobW Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) Hi there: Below three Riemer-version Victory Medals. Note that each ball suspension is different. More pictures will follow tomorrow with better light. Any idea? Best regards, GM1 Hello GM1, It is not unusual to see differences in finish and metal content with these Riemer types. You have three good examples with different ball suspenders. The larger ring-cylinder is seen less often than the usual ball suspender. Regards, Rob Edited October 29, 2013 by RobW
GM1 Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Hello GM1, It is not unusual to see differences in finish and metal content with these Riemer. You have three good examples with different ball suspenders. The larger ring-cylinder is seen less often than the usual ball suspender. Regards, Rob Thanks a lot Rob! GM1
GM1 Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Some more details of the three Riemer Victory Medals:
GM1 Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Also notice the difference in the border at the back. The R-marks are clearly visible.
RobW Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Hello GM1, You have some very nice Riemer examples. A query on the example with the smallest ball suspender (on the left as viewed as the group). On close inspection it appears that the ball suspender has actually cracked where the solder is on the obverse. Is this the case or is it a trick of the lights? Regards, Rob Edited November 4, 2013 by RobW
GM1 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Hi Rob, I post another picture: It the ball is definitely not closed, but it doesn't seem to be a crack. It look that it never has been closed at all. A manufacturing error? I don't know. Any explanation is more than welcome! Best regards, GM1
Stuka f Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Intresting threat! Never knew such a "comoun"(sorry!!) medal got so much intrest. cheers |<ris
GM1 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Some close-ups from the "broken" ball suspension: Apparently there are some rest of welding there? Any opinion more than welcome! Best regards, GM1
lambert Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Hi GM1 Think of it as a defect the ball just broke, just that. Best regards Lambert
johnnymac Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Maybe sawed open to put a higher ring though the ball?
GM1 Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 There are no signs of sawing. I think it just is a manufacturing failure. Any one else with such a problem? Thanks! GM1
Herman Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 GM1, if what you say is true, that means that a lot of them are out there. I own several Belgian VMs and after checking them all not one of them has a open line in the ball. I go with the sawed open option i''m afraid. Quite a puzzle eeh?! Regards Herman
Bilco Posted November 6, 2013 Posted November 6, 2013 Hi Gents, Looking at the photos of the 3 Riemer medals together, this one looks to have a thicker ring of smaller radius. When the ball was uncracked the ring must have been a very tight fit - there are signs on the left side of the ball (viewed from the obverse) of burring which might be caused by the ring rubbing. Maybe it has imposed so much strain on the ball that it caused it to crack? Bill
GM1 Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 Hi Bill, I think you're right! To much strain can cause the ball to break. Impossible to fit the ring without damaging the back side of the ball. Cheers, GM1
RobW Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Hi Gents, Looking at the photos of the 3 Riemer medals together, this one looks to have a thicker ring of smaller radius. When the ball was uncracked the ring must have been a very tight fit - there are signs on the left side of the ball (viewed from the obverse) of burring which might be caused by the ring rubbing. Maybe it has imposed so much strain on the ball that it caused it to crack? Bill Hello Bill and GM1, This seems the most plausible reason. If the suspension ball was actually sawn there would be marks and the ring is actually too large to fit through the resulting crack. This supports the tension cracking option. An interesting item nonetheless. Regards, Rob
johnnymac Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) To all I ask, do you realize how much brass needs to make it crack? I have shot and reloaded ammo for years. Rifle and pistol brass is under extreme pressures even so that brass case can be reused depending on how hot you are reloading it to. I discarded mine rifle and pistol brass after 4 – 6 firing, not because of cracks, but for safety. When firing brass, all brass flows which make brass weaker to a point that will crack. That suspension ball is at least 50 times thicker than rifle or pistol brass. Do you really think someone by hand could push a ring into an undersized hole and put that much tension/pressure on it to make it eventually crack? The hole in the ball is straight you could hammer a tapped pin into it, that would put pressure on ball. But if you were to just hand forced the ring into it the ring would give before the ball would crack. Sawing relieves that slightly undersize hole, and by sanding with several passes that brass can clean up very easily. CUP ( copper units of pressure) or PSI ( pound per square inch) is 47,000 to 50,000 PSI for standard rifle cartridges the size of .30-06! Regards, Jim Edited November 8, 2013 by johnnymac
Bilco Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 Hi Gents, Thinking about the origin of this crack - how are these ball, cylinder and knob suspensions formed? In the case of the ball, was it filed out of a piece of solid bronze, or could it have been formed from half-round stock? In the latter case, it would probably have been formed into a ball around a round bar to leave the hole in the centre, which would leave a join. If it was then soldered with the join against the planchet all would be well, but if the join was just out of the solder it would tend to widen when put under pressure - like this example. There were some postings about a US vic with a split knob in the American (US) Victory Medals thread, the first post was #246 on page 13, and the last #262 on page 14. Bill
johnnymac Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) Hi Bill, click photo to enlarge. Edited November 8, 2013 by johnnymac
Chris Boonzaier Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 I really dont think this could be a crack that "just happened"... it would be extremely unusual for something like that to happen IMHO Best Chris
johnnymac Posted November 9, 2013 Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Hello Chris, Thanks you for your posting. As I see it, if it was just a crack it is to perfect a cut and the separation between the two sides is just too large. , Edited November 9, 2013 by johnnymac
Chris Boonzaier Posted November 9, 2013 Posted November 9, 2013 Hello Chris, Thanks you for your posting. As I see it, if it was just a crack it is to perfect a cut and the separation between the two sides is just too large. , For what its worth, I agree.
GM1 Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 Thank you all for your contributions! Interesting discussion on this matter! Best regards, GM1
davidck Posted December 25, 2013 Posted December 25, 2013 Santa was good to me this year: Belgian uniface
GM1 Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 Santa was good to me this year: Belgian unifaceimage.jpg Nice piece! Could yo place a picture of the reverse, so see the finishing? GM1
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