Orders and Medals of the Kingdom of Hannover

[BlackcowboyBS]

Dear Colleagues and Collectors,
actually I wanted to announce it officially in Gunzenhausen, but since Gunzenhausen is cancelled this year, here it is! 
I started working on the book about the orders and decorations of the Kingdom of Hannover. Since I can now bring in the experiences from my book about Brunswick, I think it will be a good book. 
I'm not sure if there will be, for example, the list of all bearers of the three Hanoverian Orders. For the list in the book about Brunswick I have been typing and checking lists every evening for almost 4 months. In Hannover it would probably take even longer and many people want to buy the Braunschweig book without the third part. What is your opinion about this? 
From some museums I have permission to use their pieces, two big Hannover collectors will also allow me to use their collection, but I will definitely need the help of one or the other here. 
I'm looking for photos of people wearing orders and decorations from Hannover, as well as photos of rare pieces and variants and award certificates! 
Soon I will activate an email address, which will be used only for the topic orders from Hannover. I will publish it here and you can communicate with me there. 
As a small introduction I want to tell you some information about the Golden Chain / Collane of the Order of Guelphs, maybe some of you don't know it yet. 
There are three different collanes, there are real golden, silver gilded and bronze gilded. If you look at the statutes of the Order of Guelphs, you will notice that the name cipher of the founder George III is shown without the III. The real golden and the silver-gilt specimens, however, have a Roman 3 under the name aisle, the bronze-gilt chain does not. Here I show you the averse and the reverse side of the cipher of a silver gilded chain. The hallmarks are nice to see, you can easily recognize the manufacturer. (Everything else about this in my book) 
The chains were made in Hannover as well as in England, maybe also in France, I have to check that. 
My time schedule is as follows, the book should be published in spring 2023, I am aiming for the spring meeting of the DGO. 
With this in mind, I wish you a happy 30th anniversary of German Unity.

 

[OTTER76]

Congratz on your project. Frohe Tag der Deutschen Einheit!

[VtwinVince]

Es gibt leider keine echte deutsche Einheit mehr. Seit 1945 ist Deutschland besetztes Gebiet, und die 15 Millionen Fluechtlinge hatten bei der 'Wiedervereinigung' nichts zu sagen!

[GdC26]

33 minutes ago, VtwinVince said:

Es gibt leider keine echte deutsche Einheit mehr. Seit 1945 ist Deutschland besetztes Gebiet, und die 15 Millionen Fluechtlinge hatten bei der 'Wiedervereinigung' nichts zu sagen!

???

On 03/10/2020 at 09:56, BlackcowboyBS said:

Dear Colleagues and Collectors,
actually I wanted to announce it officially in Gunzenhausen, but since Gunzenhausen is cancelled this year, here it is! 
I started working on the book about the orders and decorations of the Kingdom of Hannover. Since I can now bring in the experiences from my book about Brunswick, I think it will be a good book. 
I'm not sure if there will be, for example, the list of all bearers of the three Hanoverian Orders. For the list in the book about Brunswick I have been typing and checking lists every evening for almost 4 months. In Hannover it would probably take even longer and many people want to buy the Braunschweig book without the third part. What is your opinion about this? 
From some museums I have permission to use their pieces, two big Hannover collectors will also allow me to use their collection, but I will definitely need the help of one or the other here. 
I'm looking for photos of people wearing orders and decorations from Hannover, as well as photos of rare pieces and variants and award certificates! 
Soon I will activate an email address, which will be used only for the topic orders from Hannover. I will publish it here and you can communicate with me there. 
As a small introduction I want to tell you some information about the Golden Chain / Collane of the Order of Guelphs, maybe some of you don't know it yet. 
There are three different collanes, there are real golden, silver gilded and bronze gilded. If you look at the statutes of the Order of Guelphs, you will notice that the name cipher of the founder George III is shown without the III. The real golden and the silver-gilt specimens, however, have a Roman 3 under the name aisle, the bronze-gilt chain does not. Here I show you the averse and the reverse side of the cipher of a silver gilded chain. The hallmarks are nice to see, you can easily recognize the manufacturer. (Everything else about this in my book) 
The chains were made in Hannover as well as in England, maybe also in France, I have to check that. 
My time schedule is as follows, the book should be published in spring 2023, I am aiming for the spring meeting of the DGO. 
With this in mind, I wish you a happy 30th anniversary of German Unity.

 

Interesting topic, look forward to updates and the end result.

[laurentius]

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

Es gibt leider keine echte deutsche Einheit mehr. Seit 1945 ist Deutschland besetztes Gebiet, und die 15 Millionen Fluechtlinge hatten bei der 'Wiedervereinigung' nichts zu sagen!

Please keep your opinions to yourself. A wildly unnecessary statement, to say the least.

[GdC26]

Let's try to get this back on track - BlackcowboyBS, any more info on the book?

[BlackcowboyBS]

3 hours ago, GdC26 said:

Let's try to get this back on track - BlackcowboyBS, any more info on the book?

Hi,

there is not much, that I can tell you right now, besides, what my plans are and what I have done in the past on my books on the orders and medals from Brunswick.

There will be an introduction on the history of the Kingdom of Hannover

There will be a chapter for each order, so we have a chapter on the guelphic order, the st. Georg and the Ernst August Order,

There will be chapters dealing the medals of Hannover, sorted by themes, like military long service, life saving medals, merit crosses etc. You will find photos of the orders, medals, medalbars, award documents, hopefully photos of the bearers, intersting stories about some awards, why they have been made, stories behind awards ... things like this.

In my books on Brunswick I had the list of all bearers of the order of Brunswick included, but I am not sure, if I will do it again in my book on Hannover. 

To give you an idea, you may want to take a look in my books on Brunswick:

Book 1: https://cdn.website-start.de/proxy/apps/y2gpz4/uploads/gleichzwei/instances/6AB6C635-842F-4689-BE8B-EAAF30F7F4CF/wcinstances/epaper/4be58de3-e5f4-4d39-82ec-99ea269752dc/pdf/Leseprobe-Band-1-Braunschweiger-Orden.pdf

Book 2: https://cdn.website-start.de/proxy/apps/y2gpz4/uploads/gleichzwei/instances/6AB6C635-842F-4689-BE8B-EAAF30F7F4CF/wcinstances/epaper/83f5f5b1-8ddf-47f5-87bc-483e530c0d32/pdf/Leseprobe-Band-2-Braunschweiger-Orden.pdf

Book 3: https://cdn.website-start.de/proxy/apps/y2gpz4/uploads/gleichzwei/instances/6AB6C635-842F-4689-BE8B-EAAF30F7F4CF/wcinstances/epaper/44d1588c-aebe-4cc5-8543-12349ac6b8da/pdf/Leseprobe-Band-3-Braunschweiger-Orden.pdf

My Email Adress, where people can contact me regarding this topic is: orden_kgr_hannover@schwarzbuch-verlag.com

So my journey begins but it will be a long way to get there. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by BlackcowboyBS

[Trooper_D]

From what I can see from the pdfs linked to above, these books look to be of excellent quality, Stephan. btw the third link is a repeat of the second. Might you be able to put up the correct link to the third book, please?

Edited October 5, 2020 by Trooper_D

[GdC26]

32 minutes ago, Trooper_D said:

From what I can see from the pdfs linked to above, these books look to be of excellent quality, Stephan. 

I can confirm they are.

[BlackcowboyBS]

42 minutes ago, Trooper_D said:

From what I can see from the pdfs linked to above, these books look to be of excellent quality, Stephan. btw the third link links is a repeat of the second. Might you be able to put up the correct link to the third book, please?

Thank you for your information, I have changed the link to the correct one. 

[VtwinVince]

Hey, if people make political statements, don't try and stifle what I would say is an appropriate response.

[GdC26]

I don’t think Stephan intended to make a political statement. In any event, let’s keep politics out of the discussion - things tend to get heated, and such statements have no bearing on this discussion or others on this forum anyway.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Edited October 5, 2020 by GdC26

[BlackcowboyBS]

Coming back to the golden chain of the guelphic order, I can show you 5 hallmarks on a silver gilded version.

From left to right this is what these hallmarks do stand for:

 

1. The head: made in the regency of king William IV. (or Wilhelm IV. in German reading)
2. the lion: made in sterling silver
3. the t: made in 1834
4. the lionshead: made in London
5. JJE: made by the goldsmith John James Eddington.

more will be found in my book when it is published. 

[BlackcowboyBS]

While doing the first research and mind mapping the orders and medals of the kingdom of Hannover, I was thinking upon the 4^th class of the guelphic order.  It was founded in 1841 and even if many people called it a knights cross 2^nd class, this is not true. It was never meant to be a knights cross. If we compare it to the 4^th class of the order of Henry the Lion, we do see some similarities between them, but you cannot compare them in reality. Between their foundations lies 68 years, when the 4^th class of the guelphic order was founded, there was just the golden knights cross available in Brunswick. So the same recipients could get a 4^th class from Hannover and a golden knights cross from Brunswick. When the knights cross 2^nd class was founded in Brunswick it was much more comparable to the silver 4^th class of Hannover, besides the fact, that the Kingdom of Hannover was gone, when the knight 2^nd class was founded 1877 in Brunswick.

So what are your thoughts on this, would you compare the Hanoverian 4^th class to the knight 2^nd or the 4^th class of Henry the Lion? I am hoping on an interesting discussion here.

But for sure, they all are looking nice, when presented all together.

[VtwinVince]

I would be interested to know if you are running a publishing house. Also, how long have you been collecting, as you've seemingly come out of nowhere recently with all these spectacular items.

[David M]

I am very curious where you came from all of a sudden as well.

If you dont mind me saying: a series on Hannover without at least lists of names of recipients as the mere basis would be incomplete to the collecting community and useless for me personally

Btw should you consider doing a series on kurhessen after your Hannover series, let me know. I have a great deal on this

[Trooper_D]

3 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

I would be interested to know if you are running a publishing house. Also, how long have you been collecting, as you've seemingly come out of nowhere recently with all these spectacular items.

and

1 hour ago, David M said:

I am very curious where you came from all of a sudden as well.

In such matters, Google is often your friend. This is what it revealed,

https://tallinnmuseum.com/2020/07/03/the-unrealized-order-of-the-duchy-of-brunswick/

[laurentius]

Although some collectors might be surprised that such a source of knowledge might have gone on some time before being noticed here at the forum, it would be wise to consider that there are many collectors like that. Sadly enough there are people who buy from auctionhouses and read reference-material and literature and for them, that's it. No contact whatsoever with collectors, perhaps apart from strolling around the forums every once in a while, without saying anything ofcourse. Rather spooky, an excellent subject for this time of year with halloween so closeby.

Not to suggest ofcourse that Stefan is like this, he has been kind and supporting ever since his recent arrival, a fine addition, without a doubt.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[David M]

Wouldnt it be nice and revealing to have had Stefan answer the question on him and about him, by himself?

But still a great article

[GdC26]

Hmm, this is not good, all this suspicion about someone who recently joined and decided to share his knowledge.

Many collectors these days don't share, not because they are trolls (as Laurentinu's suggests) but because they want to protect their identity, or because discussion on fora has stooped down to the quality of your average Facebook chat. And yes, I do think Stephan owns Schwarzbook Verlag (as is evident from the watermark on his pics) - but I'm not sure how relevant that is to the question whether or not we should welcome his contributions.

I, for one, welcome, Stephan to the Forum. His excellent 3 book series on Braunschweig has been in the works for some time, and its development could be seen on Facebook - I, for one, was alerted to it by our (former) fellow member Medalnet.

Welcome to the club, Stephan, and thank you for your contributions sofar, of which I hope to see many more.

Kind regards,

Sandro

Edited October 29, 2020 by GdC26

[laurentius]

13 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

not because they are trolls

I hope I didn't give the impression that these collectors I was referering to were trolls, but rather collectors who keep to theirselves and don't want to share.

 

13 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

Hmm, this is not good, all this suspicion about someone who recently joined and decided to share his knowledge.

I agree, we should be happy to be joined by a knowledgeable collector, especially since the fora become less and less active.

 

[GdC26]

22 minutes ago, laurentius said:

I hope I didn't give the impression that these collectors I was referering to were trolls, but rather collectors who keep to theirselves and don't want to share.

 

I agree, we should be happy to be joined by a knowledgeable collector, especially since the fora become less and less active.

 

?

[Trooper_D]

35 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

Welcome to the club, Stephan, and thank you for your contributions sofar, of which I hope to see many more.

 

23 minutes ago, laurentius said:

I agree, we should be happy to be joined by a knowledgeable collector, especially since the fora become less and less active.

I concur with both these sentiments.

[BlackcowboyBS]

Thank you Laurentius and Sandro for your kind words. Well if people wanted to know more about me, they could pm me, here in this forum I have discussed matter of phaleristics and will do so in the future as well. I am not discussing things on my person. In Germany we have a saying: A gentleman enjoys and keeps silent about it! 

And as we are in a Gentlemans Forum ...

So lets go back ton Hannover, if you don't mind. 

PS: Thank you Trooper_D

Edited October 29, 2020 by BlackcowboyBS

[ArHo]

Okay - back to Hannover, well, somehow... ;-)