Miniature bar identification

[Deruelle]

Hi,

I have in my Saxon database and I have found nothing more than Blackcowboy.

 

This is probably a retired officer who served in the back of the front. For that we should read the Saxon Rangliste

 

Christophe

Edited October 6, 2021 by Deruelle

[Nihil Sine Deo]

16 minutes ago, Deruelle said:

Hi,

I have in my Saxon database and I have found nothing more than Blackcowboy.

 

This is probably a retired officer who served in the back of the front. For that we should read the Saxon Rangliste

 

Christophe

Hello, thank you for looking in the Saxon database, I appreciate.

 

Tomorrow I will try to find the Saxon Rangliste and I will also look for a potential bearer. I hope to find the book.

 

Best regards,

Iulian

[webr55]

Are we sure this is a reserve OFFICER? I wonder if his military rank might have been just a reserve VizeFw or so, but that he held a very high civilian rank/status. 

[Haku]

webr55

This is also my opinion now. If you look at the awards of the Braunschweig Officer's Cross.

I got the officers through and unfortunately no hit that is very promising.

[Nihil Sine Deo]

I found this page that might be relevant in the 1912 Braunschweig Staats-Handbuch. I think that these are the persons that were awarded with the Order of Henry the Lion.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Nihil Sine Deo

[Nihil Sine Deo]

22 minutes ago, Triadoro said:

 

Hello.  Back on September 30th, in my first contribution on this thread, I provided you with 3 solid leads and links on how and where to conduct your research due the large number of high civilian awards:  Saxon Court & State Handbooks, Brunswick State Handbooks for the officers cross, and Austro-Hungarian Court & State Handbooks.

 

If you had listened to Komtur's simple advice and adhered to the research-plan I outlined a week ago, you would have remained on the right track without wasting a lot of time on distracting, dead-end advice.  If you get back on track and stay the course without becoming distracted and allowing yourself to be mislead, you might actually succeed in this project.  Regards.

Hello, I’ve searched through the Saxon court & state handbooks and Brunswick state books (the last post of mine is from that book) but I couldn’t find anything relevant. I will also try to look through Austro-Hungarian state book maybe I will find the recipient there. I repeat, my German is very bad and that is an major minus for me. 
Please understand that I am making great efforts trying to decipher the old German.

 

Regards.

[Komtur]

Ranglisten des Königreichs Sachsen

 

may be of some use.

[Nihil Sine Deo]

27 minutes ago, Komtur said:

Ranglisten des Königreichs Sachsen

 

may be of some use.

Thank you very very much. It really is very helpful. I couldn’t find the Rangliste myself.

 Having in thought what BlackcowboyBS I will look through the 1908-1912 rank list. 
 

Best regards,

Iulian

[GdC26]

5 hours ago, Triadoro said:

 

Hello.  Back on September 30th, in my first contribution on this thread, I provided you with 3 solid leads and links on how and where to conduct your research due the large number of high civilian awards:  Saxon Court & State Handbooks, Brunswick State Handbooks for the officers cross, and Austro-Hungarian Court & State Handbooks.

 

If you had listened to Komtur's simple advice and adhered to the research-plan I outlined a week ago, you would have remained on the right track without wasting a lot of time on distracting, dead-end advice.  If you get back on track and stay the course without becoming distracted and allowing yourself to be mislead, you might actually succeed in this project.  Regards.

Not sure why you feel the need to take or make this personal, but whatever the reason,  this is not the way of this Forum. 

Kind regards,

Sandro

Edited October 7, 2021 by GdC26

[GdC26]

23 hours ago, Triadoro said:

 

You seem to feel that you are the arbiter of what constitutes the Way Of The Forum (???) but I'm afraid I fail to understand where you derive your authority in that regard.

 

I call it as I see it.  When somebody who is struggling to conduct challenging research is sent-off in a myriad of dead-end directions, I feel an obligation to help put them back on track.  Regards.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Dear Triadoro,

Your aims seem laudable, your methods less so: this is after all a Gentleman's club, there is a hint in the name  .... 

 

 

As regards research, suum cuique, there is rarely just one way that leads to the light, and it is clear that many members are trying to help Iulian in his efforts attribute the chain.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Edited October 8, 2021 by GdC26

[webr55]

21 hours ago, Nihil Sine Deo said:

I found this page that might be relevant in the 1912 Braunschweig Staats-Handbuch. I think that these are the persons that were awarded with the Order of Henry the Lion.

And these are the rest until 1915, from the 1916 edition:

 

[webr55]

I would suggest looking for more information on Reichsgerichtsrat Dr. (Richard) Mansfeld (1865-1943), since he was in Saxony at the time. Neither listed in DOA (but that doesn't mean anything) nor in the Bavarian St Michael lists (but these stop in 1910). 

Edited October 11, 2021 by webr55

[Nihil Sine Deo]

57 minutes ago, webr55 said:

I would suggest looking for more information on Reichsgerichtsrat Dr. (Richard) Mansfeld, since he was in Saxony at the time. Neither listed in DOA nor in the Bavarian St Michael lists (but these stop in 1910). 

Hello,

Thank you very much for the 1912-1915 list, and I would like to thank you for the suggestion, I will look after more information about Reichgerichtsrat Dr. Richard Mansfeld, hoping to find his awards list.

 

Best regards,

Iulian

[BlackcowboyBS]

On 07/10/2021 at 12:20, webr55 said:

Are we sure this is a reserve OFFICER? I wonder if his military rank might have been just a reserve VizeFw or so, but that he held a very high civilian rank/status. 

Absolutely not, he could be a civilian and having a higher grade in the civil status lists. I just started with the officers, because it was easy to spot the saxonians in it. It is much harder with the civilians. 

[Nihil Sine Deo]

On 08/10/2021 at 12:55, webr55 said:

I would suggest looking for more information on Reichsgerichtsrat Dr. (Richard) Mansfeld (1865-1943), since he was in Saxony at the time. Neither listed in DOA (but that doesn't mean anything) nor in the Bavarian St Michael lists (but these stop in 1910). 

Hello, I’ve looked after Reichsgerichtsrat Dr.  Max Richard Emil Mansfeld and I have found out a lot of informations but unfortunately I couldn’t find the awards list or even a photo with him.

 

He was born on November 29, 1865 in Wolfenbüttel (a town from Lower Saxony)  and died on December 5, 1943 in Leipzig. 

In 1894 he worked as public prosecutor at the Braunschweig District Court, in 1895 he was promoted as district judge there and in 1896 was promoted as District judge at the Braunschweig Regional Court. In 1906 he was appointed Higher Regional Court Councilor at the Higher Regional Court of Braunschweig. He made the leap to the judge's bench of the Reich Court the following year. In 1922 was elected as Senate President. On December 1st, 1933 he retired.

 

He also wrote some important books which influenced the judiciary system.

Some of titles are:

 

- “The legal benefit of the inventory and the position of inheritance creditors, in particular towards a majority of heirs” (1888);

 

- “The publicist claim to reaction and its legal protection in the Duchy of Braunschweig” (1895);

 

- “Change order with comment in annotations and a representation of the change process” (1908);

 

If someone could help me with the award list or tell me where I could find it, I would really appreciate.

 

Best regards, 

Iulian.

 

 

[BlackcowboyBS]

On 08/10/2021 at 10:43, webr55 said:

And these are the rest until 1915, from the 1916 edition:

 

Well let me state, that the list in the Hof and Staatshandbuch from 1907 maybe 1909 on only shows the names of people living in the duchy of Brunswick and not the people from outside anymore. They also only list the names of the people still alive, so these lists aren't complete! 

[webr55]

7 hours ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

Well let me state, that the list in the Hof and Staatshandbuch from 1907 maybe 1909 on only shows the names of people living in the duchy of Brunswick and not the people from outside anymore. They also only list the names of the people still alive, so these lists aren't complete! 

Very interesting - so is there any way at all to find the non-Brunswick recipients? Any rolls in the archives?

 

[BlackcowboyBS]

21 hours ago, webr55 said:

Very interesting - so is there any way at all to find the non-Brunswick recipients? Any rolls in the archives?

 

Here is the complete list. And yes, there are documents in the archive of Wolfenbüttel.

Edited October 21, 2021 by BlackcowboyBS

[David M]

To bad we cant see how the recipients are represented in the book

[David M]

I think the author in question is very well able to make a useless remark like that himself.

It would also be very possible to show just one. Or an example of how the entries in the book are set up. There is a difference in showing 'just'  a list or putting biographical entries in a book which shows details such as.DOB And Dod.

In stead of just codemning a question askes by a fellow member of this forum, you might want to try I dont know....a friendlier approach? Especially since you have nothing to do with the subject at all.

[BlackcowboyBS]

Gentlemen!!!

 

Okay each chapter in the third book starts with a photo of the order of the recipients like this one. then you have the list of every recipient and his status listed in the year they got this order. 

 

[David M]

1 hour ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

Gentlemen!!!

 

Okay each chapter in the third book starts with a photo of the order of the recipients like this one. then you have the list of every recipient and his status listed in the year they got this order. 

 

Thank you. Thats most helpful.

[Nihil Sine Deo]

On 22/10/2021 at 23:10, BlackcowboyBS said:

Gentlemen!!!

 

Okay each chapter in the third book starts with a photo of the order of the recipients like this one. then you have the list of every recipient and his status listed in the year they got this order. 

 

Thank you very much for your effort! It’s highly appreciated.

 

Becuase I’m in a great need for money the miniature medal chain was put up for auction on EBay. If someone is interested, you can find it there.

 

Thank you very much.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Nihil Sine Deo

[BlackcowboyBS]

In a discussion with other collectors, this name appeared: Karl Andreas Ernst  Becker, Oberregierungsrat in Dresden! 

Well he got the officers cross of Brunswick, so it might be a good fit. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by BlackcowboyBS

[Nihil Sine Deo]

2 hours ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

In a discussion with other collectors, this name appeared: Karl Andreas Ernst  Becker, Oberregierungsrat in Dresden! 

Well he got the officers cross of Brunswick, so it might be a good fit. 

Hello, 

I’ve tried to find some informations about Karl Andreas Ernst Becker but I couldn’t find anything. 
 

From my researches, thanks to the posted list, I think that another possible recipient could be Friedrich-Werner Graf von der Schulenburg, being one Saxon that recieved the Brunswick officers cross but I couldn’t find his award roll.
 

Warm regards.

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Nihil Sine Deo