Not So Mad LUDWIG III

[Bayern]

13 hours ago, filfoster said:

Yes, he's an interesting historical person. That's why I want to replicate his medal and ribbon bars and perhaps his dress uniform.

My best wishes of success to you !

 

[filfoster]

7 hours ago, Bayern said:

My best wishes of success to you !

 

Any idea what the #4 medal is?

[filfoster]

I hope some of the experts on this site can help fill in the missing blanks. The most puzzling mystery is the medal that appears in the #4 position in my initial post, and the #3 medal in the photo of him wearing Prussian uniform. It has rounded ends to the cross arms and is a similar shape but larger than the 1866 campaign medal that appears further on, on both bars.  There is no medal in the precedence list that corresponds to this shape.

For reference, my precedence shows, after the Ludwig Order:

Military Merit Cross for Peacetime 

Merit Cross for 1870-71

Lifesaving Medal

Ludwig Medal

Merit Cross for Voluntary Care of the Sick

Prussian Iron Cross

1916 Ludwig Cross

Jubilee Medals

 

The Merit Cross for the Voluntary Care of the Sick is the only one that corresponds to the shape of the #4 medal but this decoration seems very unlikely. It's not impossible, as I know King Edward VII of England wore two Red Cross medals on his bar, the Prussian Order of the Crown 3rd class with Red Cross device, and the 'Geneva Cross' French medal. 

The photo is a 1914 example but I think it was instituted before the war, 1901.

Edited October 4, 2022 by filfoster

[filfoster]

It is not a common medal to find on ebay or on the usual medal vendor sites.

[filfoster]

The Napoleonic wars campaign medal also resembles the medal in the 4th place.  There is no reason I know of that would suggest Ludwig III would have received or worn this medal:

[filfoster]

No guesses for the #4 medal?

[filfoster]

Bump, as they say. 

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

#4 Verdienstkreuz für freiwillige Krankenpflege (for sure!)

#6 Landwirtschaftliche Jubiläumsmedaille (1910)

#8 Dienstauszeichnungskreuz für 25 Dienstjahre der Offiziere (Prussia)

[filfoster]

Lukasz Gaszewski:  Thank YOU!  I very much appreciate your help. I suspect the 1910 Agricultural Jubilee medal, while not particularly valuable, will be hard to find.

Can you can ID any of the other unknown ones?

ONLY 5 more to go!

 

Is #12 the Queen Victoria Golden/Silver Jubilee medal?

 

#14 is also definitely an Austrian medal because of the Franz Josef bust on the obverse. Which one?

 

So we have now:

1.  Jubilee medal for the Order of St. George

2.  Military Merit Order 3rd with swords (and crown?)

3.  Ludwig Order

4.  Cross for Medical Volunteers

5.  Luitpold 1909 70 year Jubilee medal

6.  1910 Agricultural Jubilee medal

7.  Bavarian 1866 campaign cross?

8. Prussian 25 year service cross

9.  Prussian Centenary Medal

10. 

11.

12.

13.

14. Austrian Bravery Medal

15. Austrian F J Tapferkeit

16.

Edited October 12, 2022 by filfoster

[91-old-inf-reg]

#2 Does not have a crown

#7 is the 1866 campaign cross

#10 is the Fürstlich Schaumburg-Lippe Militärverdienstmedaille 
#11 is the Herzoglich Anhalt Goldene Erinnerungsmedaille zum 25. Regierungsjubiläum

#12 is the Queen Victoria Golden or Diamond Jubilee medal

#13 is the K.u.K. 1898 "Signvm Memoriae" medal

#14 is the K.u.K. 1908 jubilee medal for foreigners

#15 is the K.u.K. 1848-1908 jubilee cross

#16 is the 1896 Imperial Russian Coronation medal of Tsar Nicholas II

 

 

 

What would be quite interesting is to try and figure out what his post-war medal bar consisted of! 
 

best regards,

Dan

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Good shot, Dan, my congratulations! I would only argue about #11. Actually, you cannot see it clearly on any photo here - it is either too small or covered by some other medal. I have found one of the above photos in a better resolution. It is a pre-1908 photo with apparently the same medal in a more legible position. To me it looks more like the Erinnerungsmedaille zum 25. Regierungsjubiläum von König Karl of the Kingdom of Württemberg of 1889 (most certainly in gold). The details seem much closer and the pink and silver ribbon of the Anhalt medal would probably come out brighter on the photo. Have a look yourself.

 

It is quite surprising that the king received two decorations for the same 1908 jubilee of Emperor Franz-Joseph. I thought at first that one of these K.u.K. medals was the Kriegsmedaille of 1873 (as an ally of Austria and participant of the war with Prussia he would be eligible) but upon a closer examination I think you are right.

 

Best,

Lukasz

A close-up.

[91-old-inf-reg]

Lukaz,

I saw that, and I knew that that was right and I had it in the back of my mind. 
the combination of the similar ribbon near by the that medal threw me off. 
 

Best regards,

Dan

[filfoster]

Thank you to Dan and Lukasz!

 

So we have now:

 

1.  Jubilee medal for the Order of St. George

2.  Military Merit Order 3rd with swords

3.  Ludwig Order

4.  Cross for Medical Volunteers

5.  Luitpold 1909 70 year Jubilee medal

6.  1910 Agricultural Jubilee medal

7.  Bavarian 1866 campaign cross

8. Prussian 25 year service cross

9.  Prussian Centenary Medal

10. Princely Schaumburg-Lippe military service medal

11. Ducal Anhalt Golden Commemorative medal 25th anniversary of reign

12. Queen Victoria Golden/Diamond Jubilee medal

13. Austrian 1908 Signum Memoriae Medal

14. Austrian 1908 Jubilee medal for Foreigners

15. Austrian F J 1848-98 Tapferkeit

16. 1896 Russian Nicholas II coronation medal

 

 

[filfoster]

Can someone provide a photo and perhaps different name for the #14 medal? My searches only yield the 1908 Signum Memoriae medal.

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

Let me make a slightly more precise list:

 

1.  Jubilee medal of the Order of St. George
2.  Military Merit Order 3rd Class with Swords
3.  Ludwig Order
4.  Cross of Merit for Voluntary Nursing
5.  1905/1909 Prince-Regent Luitpold Medal in Gold
6.  1910 Agricultural Jubilee Medal in Gold
7. 1866 Campaign Cross
8. Prussian 25-year Officer Service Cross
9. Prussian 1897 Centenary Medal
10. Princely Schaumburg-Lippe Military Merit Medal
11. Kingdom of Württemberg Commemorative Medal for the 25th Anniversary of King Karl's Reign in Gold
12. British Queen Victoria Golden/Diamond Jubilee Medal in Gold
13. Austro-Hungarian 1898 Jubilee Medal for Military
14. Austro-Hungarian 1908 Jubilee Medal for Foreigners
15. Austro-Hungarian 1908 Jubilee Cross for the Armed Forces
16. Russian 1896 Nicholas II Coronation Medal

 

Note that #11 is of Württemberg, not Anhalt.

 

You can see #14 for example here:

https://www.emedals.com/austria-imperial-a-bronze-jubilee-medal-for-foreigners-c-1908

 

Until 1901 Ludwig (not yet a king) also wore the Long Service Cross (Dienstauszeichnungskreuz) of 2nd Class (for 24 years) and between 1901 and 1911 - of 1st Class (for 40 years), then he replaced it with the Ludwig Order.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by Lukasz Gaszewski

[filfoster]

Lukasz and Dan, thank you very much. I believe this is enough to recreate the ribbon and medal bars for Ludwig. III. The difficulty with the medal bar recreation will be several of the obscure ones that are not commonly found as originals and never as copies, e.g., The Bavarian 1910 Agricultural Jubilee, the Wurttemberg Karl 25 year Jubilee medal and the Austrian 1908 Jubilee medal for foreigners. This will be a  very long term (and perhaps expensive) project.

Edited October 15, 2022 by filfoster

[Lukasz Gaszewski]

I agree that completing all the medals can be difficult, as even the replicas of some of them are hard to get (I have just seen a nice looking replica of the Prince-Regent Luitpold Medal in Gold). Still, good luck!

 

I would like to attract your attention to one of Ludwig's photos from this topic. I have got it in a better resolution. The photo was taken in 1916 at the earliest and is certainly the latest of all the photos here. I somehow did not pay much attention to it before. Note also the beautiful decorations of Queen Maria Theresa.

 

I have enlarged the medal bar, which is substantially different from the ones on the other photos. Some of the earlier medals are missing, one is surprisingly not, some other, evidently from WWI, have been added. Below is the list, as I could identify them. I am not sure of the three medals whose faces are actually hidden, but maybe someone else will be able to confirm or reject my guessing:

 

1.    Military Order of Maximilian-Joseph – Knight
2.    Order of the Bavarian Crown – Knight
3.    Military Merit Order 3rd Class with Swords
4.    Ludwig Order
5.    1905/1909 Prince-Regent Luitpold Medal in Gold
6.    Kingdom of Saxony Military Order of St. Henry – Knight
7.    Grand Ducal Oldenburg Cross of Friedrich-August (?)
8.    Princely Schaumburg-Lippe Military Merit Medal (? - perhaps moved from the place further on)
9.    Princely Lippe War Cross
10.    1866 Campaign Cross
11.    Prussian 25-year Officer Service Cross
12.    Prussian 1897 Centenary Medal
13.    Kingdom of Württemberg Commemorative Medal for the 25th Anniversary of King Karl's Reign in Gold
14.    British Queen Victoria Golden/Diamond Jubilee Medal in Gold (?)
15.    Austro-Hungarian 1898 Jubilee Medal for Military
16.    Austro-Hungarian 1908 Jubilee Medal for Foreigners
17.    Austro-Hungarian 1908 Jubilee Cross for the Armed Forces
18.    Russian 1896 Nicholas II Coronation Medal (it is odd that Ludwig decided to continue wearing it during the war!)

 

 

 

[filfoster]

Lukasz: Thank you! Very nice photo!

...I did just today receive that Luitpold jubilee replica from a German vendor. I have used it before and it's a nice copy.

[filfoster]

OK, finally done.  Had to use 'ringers', i.e. other medals with similar obverse for the #6 and #14 place medals. Will switch out if I ever find better.

[VtwinVince]

That's a nice result.

[filfoster]

VtwinVince: Thank you. My project for this year is to reproduce his 1912 full dress uniform, with helmet, tunic, aiguillette, epaulettes and baton. This will likely take most of the year. I hope to post what I have. by fall.

[ccj]

Nice

[filfoster]

OK, here is what we have so far. Still need the parade baton, I'm working on it. 

Yes, the coat is too dark but it is lighter 'in person', more of a royal blue than navy. It photographs darker than it is.

[1812 Overture]

I'm quite curious, why is the version of Emperor Franz in the medal bar that was given to the subjects of the Austrian Hungarian Empire 60 years ago? Instead of giving the version to other countries?

[filfoster]

1812 Overture: Very simply because I could not find one AND because the originals are HIDEOUSLY expensive, far more than I'm willing to pay for a project like this. I prefer to use reproduction medals when available or inexpensive real substitutes.. The obverse bust of the medal I used is very similar, except for the lack of a laurel wreath crown. the medal border is plain, like the original.

Edited August 28, 2023 by filfoster