gjw Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) Hey all, my son and I were discussing if Himmler would have been eligible for the Hindenburg Cross. As he was an Officer Candidate while the war was still going on, wouldn't he be eligible for the Cross without Swords as he saw no Frontline service? Your thoughts please. Best Regards Greg Edited December 10, 2023 by gjw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip.S Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Greg, I am in no way an expert (or even vaguely intellectual) when it comes to German militaria, etc, but I don't see why he wouldn't be, though I'm sure he would refrain from wearing it after joining the NSDAP. Regards, Philip.S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjw Posted December 10, 2023 Author Share Posted December 10, 2023 Thanks Phil, I personally think he would wear it. Many high profile Nazis did wear it. I would think he'd (Himmler) would like be seen wearing it. Saying, that he also served during the war. Just my opinion. Best Regards Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip.S Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Greg, To my knowledge (please do correct me if I'm wrong) the NSDAP were not particularly fond of the Weimar republic, and they used the failures of that government to make themselves look good. I don't see why any NSDAP member (a Reichswehr, or Wehrmacht officer, yes, I can imagine that) wearing any Weimar awards, no? Do you know whether or not he did, in fact wear it? Regards, Philip.S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komtur Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 11 minutes ago, Philip.S said: ... wearing any Weimar awards ... Created in 1934 I believe this decoration can´t be referred in that way. Regards, Komtur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip.S Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Komtur, 6 minutes ago, Komtur said: Created in 1934 I'm awfully sorry! That was a basic fact, I should've known! Thank you for bringing my attention for this, it's greatly appreciated. In this case, yes, I see no reason why Himmler wouldn't wear it. Again, deeply sorry for my ignorance Philip.S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjw Posted December 10, 2023 Author Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) Here's a couple pictures of the HC being worn by Ribbentrop and SA Chief Schepmann Edited December 10, 2023 by gjw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 10, 2023 Share Posted December 10, 2023 Interesting question, aren’t there numerous photos of him in uniform on the web? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjw Posted December 10, 2023 Author Share Posted December 10, 2023 I've never seen a HC on either his ribbon or medal bar. If there is photos of him and a HC, would love to see them Best Regards Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 Here’s one with a ribbon bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjw Posted December 11, 2023 Author Share Posted December 11, 2023 And no HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 I can confirm that Himmler was not awarded the FKE, and he would certainly have applied for one had he been eligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 (edited) This is Reichsheini's medal bar... I don't know which collection it's in today, but it's out there somewhere in private hands. As you can see there is no Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnehmer on that bar. But I think H would have been entitled at least to wear the Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnehmer (non combatants) since he was an officer candidate since January 1918. See also: Ailsby collection The Medal bar belonging to Heinrich Himmler - Reichsführer-SS u. Chef der Deutschen Polizei. consisting of the 12 Year SS Long Service cross, 15 Year NSDAP Long Service cross, 10 Year NSDAP Long Service cross, Occupation of Austria, Occupation of Czechoslovakia with "Prague Castle" bar, Occupation of Memal, and West Wall madals. The medal bar in the original presentation case was found on 2nd May 1945 by men of Company E, 22nd Infantry Regiment of the US Army, at Himmler's summer home at Gmund, Tergensee. Protective case may be more appropriate as it was most probably constructed specifically for this bar when it was produced by the jeweler at Himmler's direction. The case measures approximately 21 cm by 15.5 cm. It is covered with a blue simulated leather, and is secured by two hinged clasps. The interior of the lid is white satin bearing the logo "T. Reiman Berlin W. Friedrichstr. 188". The bottom of the case is dark blue velvet, and is slotted to receive the medal bar and ribbon bar. Edited December 12, 2023 by Claudio 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 12, 2023 Share Posted December 12, 2023 Wow Claudio! Great information and history! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackcowboyBS Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 I have never seen Himmler with the HC and I am pretty sure, that he didn't own one. But how about Göring? He should have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) Here’s Göring’s medal bar (Photo courtesy RAF Museum). Edited December 19, 2023 by Claudio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Funnily enough, he wasn't entitled to the Eichenlaub for the OZL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, VtwinVince said: Funnily enough, he wasn't entitled to the Eichenlaub for the OZL. True! He wasn’t even an Oberleutnant when he got the OZL with Eichenlaub… Decorations & Awards: - Pour le mérite: am 02.06.1918 als Oberleutnant und Führer der Jagdstaffel 27 - Grosskreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes: am 19.07.1940 als Generalfeldmarschall und Reichsminister der Luftfahrt u. Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe - Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes: am 30.09.1939 als Generalfeldmarschall und Reichsminister der Luftfahrt und Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe (Aushändigung des Ritterkreuzes durch Adolf Hitler) - Ritterkreuz des kgl. Preuss. Hausordens von Hohenzollern mit Schwertern: 20.10.1917 - 1914 Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse: 15.09.1914 - 1914 Eisernes Kreuz I. Klasse: 22.03.1915 - Ritterkreuz II Klasse des Grossherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen mit Schwertern: 08.07.1915 - “Ehrenbecher für den Sieger in Luftkampf”: 15.04.1916 - Ritterkreuz des Grossherzoglich Badischen Militär Karl-Friedrich-Verdienstordens: 20.10.1917 - Kgl. Preuss. Flugzeugbeobachter-Abzeichen: 15.11.1914 - Kgl. Preuss. Flugzeugführer-Abzeichen: 12.10.1915 - Verwundetenabzeichen, 1918 in Schwarz - Türkischer Eiserner Halbmond - Blutorden der NSDAP (ohne Nr.): 09.11.1933 - Goldenes Ehrenzeichen der NSDAP: 01.12.1933 - Grosskreuz des Kgl. Italien. Militärordens von Savoyen - Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Roten Kreuzes, Halskreuz mit Bruststern, Sonderstufe - Großkreuz des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens (2. Modell) - Fliegerschaftsabzeichen (19.01.1935 von Göring gestiftet) - gemeinsames Flugzeugführer- und Beobachterabzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten, sog. Luftwaffen-“Doppelabzeichen“ (Stifter und erster Träger dieser ad personam ehrenhalber verliehenen Auszeichnung) - Luftwaffen-Ärmelband “Jagdgeschwader Frhr. v. Richthofen Nr. 1 1917/1918“ gestiftet und am rechten Arm angelegt: 00.10.1935 - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer - Gauehrenzeichen ”Silberner Gauadler” des Gaues Thüringen der NSDAP: 20.04.1937 - Goldenes Gauehrenzeichen des Gaues Berlin der NSDAP - Luftschutz-Ehrenzeichen 1. Stufe: 20.04.1938 - Großkreuz des Danebrog-Ordens mit den Insignien in Diamanten und der zum Großkreuz gehörenden Ordenskette (höchster dänischer Orden): 06.08.1938 - Großkreuz des Kgl. Ital. Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius und Lazzarus: 00.00.1938 - Großkreuz des Kgl. Schwed. Schwerterordens mit Kette: 02.02.1939 - Wehrmacht-Dienstauszeichnung IV. Klasse - Spange zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse: 00.09.1939 - Spange zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse: 00.09.1939 - Kreuz von Danzig II. und I. Klasse: 00.10.1939 - Große Ordenskette des Annunziatenordens (Kgl. Orden der Heiligen Verkündigung von Italien): 22.05.1940 - Orden vom Joch und den Pfeilen, höchste Stufe (Imperial del Yugo y las Flechas de España , Spanien) - Kgl. Rumän. Orden “Michael der Tapfere” Orden “Michael der Tapfere“ III., II. und I. Klasse: 21.10.1941 - Großkreuz des Militärordens von Savoyen mit Stern und Schulterband: 27.11.1941 - Grosskreuz des finnischen Freiheitskreuzes mit Schwertern: 25.03.1942 - Großkreuz des Kaiserl. Japan. Palowina-Ordens: 29.09.1943 - Slowakisches Kriegssiegerkreuz I Klasse - Komturkreuz des Kgl. Rumän. Ordens Aeronautische Tugend mit der Kriegsdekoration und Schwertern - Grosskreuz des finnischen Löwenordens mit Schwertern - Grosskreuz des Ordens der Finnischen Weissen Rose mit Schwertern - 1 Schwert des japanischen nationalen Verbandes Shochoku Seishin Shinkokai - Grosskreuz des Kgl. Italien. Ordens des Sterns - U-Bootkriegsabzeichen, 1939 mit Brillanten - Kgl. Rumän. Flugzeugführer-Abzeichen Edited December 19, 2023 by Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 (edited) Table 5-1: Awards of the Order of the Zähringer Lion with Swords in WW1 from volume VI The Aviation Awards of the Gran Duchies of Baden and Oldenburg, page 117. page 166: Edited December 19, 2023 by Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 19, 2023 Share Posted December 19, 2023 Thanks Claudio, you have to wonder if this was an 'honest mistake'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 I guess this has been discussed before, but still: Did Göring really wear two Luftwaffe long service crosses instead of two medals? Is there any photo that shows him wearing this medal bar? It would belong in our "Mistakes in Wear" thread. (Certainly, crosses look much fancier.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 Earlier in the 20ies G wore the ZLO without Eichenlaub, later he had upgraded it… I think that nobody had the courage to point that out to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 See https://www.omsa.org/files/download.php?file=JOMSA_Vol29_4.pdf&stream=true&year=1978 for article "THE ODESSEY OF HIMMLER’S MEDALS" describing Himmler's bar transition to war booty as well as 'the' document for Himmler's 12 year SS Long Service award. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dond Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Perhaps Himmler didn't wear a Hindy because it lacked Swords, a continuous reminder that he saw no frontline service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ostprussenmann_new Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 It is an interesting topic- especially with Goring and Himmler. Heck Hitler only wore his EKI and Wound badge even though he was entitled to various Bavarian awards and The HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now