Schlesischer Adler / Silesian Eagles

[CRBeery]

Late as is typical for me. Here are a few ribbon bars.

[CRBeery]

My first class that was purchased here from Tony.

[CRBeery]

The back side. I like this style as they seem more like a fighting mans piece. Just a preference.

Edited May 31, 2006 by CRBeery

[CRBeery]

A little gem for my 200th post.

[CRBeery]

These are the 9mm size. Marked L/15.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

I find it offensive to refer to the all inclusive Freicorps as "deserving of hate". That a small or large percentage of them joined the party is irrelevant to the gross generalization. That there were thousands of thugs and murderers "deserving of hate" that led to the origination and support of the party is undeniable. Not being overly sensitive here Nick but rather trying to at least keep it in a little bit of reasonable perspective. Rick's post did exactly that.

It may very well be that the Freicorps can be generalized as such but I for one would rather see the facts precede the conclusion. The dead can't defend themselves leaving us to talk. Forgive me for asking for more than a gross generalization when the facts aren't clear and denegrating words regarding the dead seem out of place to me.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Brian von Etzel

[Nick]

It may very well be that the Freicorps can be generalized as such but I for one would rather see the facts precede the conclusion. The dead can't defend themselves leaving us to talk.

Brian

I agree with you on this point. That?s what the forum is here to do. We are trying to expel myth, stereotyping and generalisation and get to the hard facts. Unfortunately something which is difficult to do when it comes to the Freikorps. There has been far too much history written from the perspective of the rise of the NSDAP. Which is certainly something that elements of the Freikorps helped to achieve, but as Rick points out to the exclusion of all else.

[Guest Rick Research]

Where have you been hiding those reeeeeeeebbon barrrrzzzzz, Chet?

The 1921 Silesia and 1919 Baltic Cross would indeed have been one of the "hard cases," since I cannot imagine anybody accidentally in both places. THAT guy had axes to grind beyond neighborhood self-defense--he just liked fighting when it had become quote-unquote private rather than national!

And that III. Marinebrigade von L?wenfeld Cross with Silesian Eagle is THE quintessential Border Freikorps Kid: no WW1 awards, and in what was probably THE best Silesian unit as well as the core of the beating heart of the infant Reichsmarine. A real

[CRBeery]

Rick,

They were in my secret mine with the rest of them. Funny how these things pile up over time when I really do not try to collect them. I have a Riker mount full now. These are the little treasures that are overlooked in my local area until I find them. The von L?wenfeld Cross with Silesian Eagle I bought because it is the odd type of thing I like to have in my collection. It is the only von L?wenfeld Cross reeban bar I have ever laid eyes on.

Same situation with the stick pins. I have a bunch of them now and nearly did the happy dance when I saw this one. Too much stuff out there. I need to sell off some stuff and refocus.

[Ralph A]

Another ribbon bar:

[Guest Rick Research]

Evil Ralph snagged that one from Weitze!!!!

OK, please confirm navy blue or black backing, and what colors are the two eagles?

This is about as "navy" a bar as I can imagine, but will make some difference tracking down the owner (and oh yes, I will) whether they are double golds for 25, double silvers for 18 or (no luck in this case, I regret) a 12 and 4.

can't tell what the actual colors are.

[Ralph A]

Eagles are gold. Backing is deep navy blue.

[Guest Rick Research]

Thought so. Back in a bit!

...

Hm! Baffled, stymied, and flummoxed! No identification leapt off the pages!

Here are six-- and there are ONLY these SIX-- below Admiral who I have no way of excluding, since unlike the admirals their 1919-20 service is unknown:

Crew 1910:

Theodor PAUL, retired as Kapt zS 1937-39 (so had 25 in 1936), alive in that rank 1963

Crew 1912:

Heinz DEGENHARDT, Kapt zS before the war, active duty 1939 but not in the 1944 Liste

Harold NETZBANDT, Kapt zS before the war, active 1939, not in 1944, and confirmed dead by 1963

Hellmuth LEISSNER, Kapt zS before the war, active duty at that rank all of WW2 and retired, alive 1963

Crew 1914:

Heinrich ROLLMANN, Kapt zS before the war, active duty at that rank all of WW2, alive 1963

Dothias WIARDA (yes), Kapt zS before the war, still at that rank in 1944, and dead by 1963.

All were torpedo-boatish types I am unable to confirm/exclude any Finnish service 1918 whatsoever.

Will have to make another pass at Admirals with known Silesian Eagles but none of whom showed clear Finnish service, at least in naval units that leapt out at me.

[J Temple-West]

bar set.

[J Temple-West]

Reverse.

[J Temple-West]

Meybauer 1st class.

[J Temple-West]

Reverse.

[J Temple-West]

Maker mark.

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Very nice John and Ralph!

[Peter J]

Very nice badge John . Here's a thought for consideration. We often discuss whether a manufacturer used different dies for the same badge, this has failed to come to my attention in regards of WW1 era badges. I suppose it would be logical that this occured with these badges as well. The badge posted below looks the same at first glance, but there are anomalies big enough to rule out they have been struck in the same die.This is also marked with the Meybauer logo under the pin. So do we have different dies or is one of these two badges a fake?

KR

Peter

[Mike K]

Hi,

A new arrival - my first NON-enamel first class! This one is made from iron/steel and has a very definite "been there" look.

Regards

Mike

Obverse...

[Mike K]

Reverse...

[Mike K]

To answer Peter's question, it looks like Meybauer had 3 dies for their Schlesien Adlers. The first for their enamel version - very different. The other two for their "solid" versions - many distinct obverse differences as Peter noted. There would be no problem having enamel and solid versions - that would cater for high quality and budget demands. The two different solid versions is more interesting - possibly indicative of a long period of production (which is likely given that the Schlesien Adler was officially approved for post-34 wear AND that Meybauer as they were very active from WW1 through WW2) and die replacement.

I've put a comparison pic together below (resolution has been seriously reduced to get under the file size restriction). Apart from the Meybauer maker mark and normal style hinge/pin/catch, you'll note that all 4 examples also have very similar tiny rivets. 3 of the examples (one from each of the three very different types of obverse) clearly have the diagonal lines on the reverse, possibly indicating a shared reverse die during some point in the production using different obverses. Interestingly enough, there also appear to be two different styles of cresents and Schlesien shields - the two upper examples appear to share the same add-ons, similarly the two lower examples appear to share the same add-ons.

Regards

Mike

[Tom Y]

The long and the short of mine. The bar just arrived from Christian L. I'm surprised no one snapped it up before me. The Austrian Bravery Medal seems to me to be an uncommon combination.

[Tom Y]

And a closeup of the mini.