saschaw

From what the picture looks like, this was most certainly at Hermann Historica's from Munich!

Not intact "gilding", but a cross made in yellow and rose gold, as they were produced up until 1910. I'm close to 100% sure from the pictures this is one by the last and most usual maker, court jeweler C. F. Zimmermann from Pforzheim, who supplied these from 1897 on.

Daniel's "RK" is not the Royal Saxon "Hausorden der Rautenkrone", but probably the "Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1914" from the two Reuß principalities...

Just to be (over-) accurate: This AKO is a Prussian one, signed by Wilhelm II as Prussian king. This is not effecting any other Imperial German states' awards as the states had their change from gold to gilt individually, and it might be interesting to point out not all of them were even war related! While the kingdom of Bavaria was surprisingly close to Prussia, changing their orders from gold to gilt effectively on Jan 1st 1917, the kingdom of Saxony did it as early as 1902(!), and the Grand Duchy of Baden followed in 1910 with orders and in (still pre-war!) 1914 with their golden merit medals.

All of these are gold, if they're authentic and officially produced. Prussia didn't change to gilt silver until almost 50 years after this type was obsolete. I'd love to see a picture of the mark! From what I have seen, many of these are unmarked... and "Wilh" cannot be what it reads. Maybe "AW"? Another common maker for such crosses could be "WILM", but not for the early type crosses, as far as I know. With that flaw on the upper cross arm, "pristine" would not be my choice of words.

After a ten year hiatus I've been to the Zollern yesterday, and it was as great as you can imagine! The exhibition saw some changes since Claudio shot this pictures in 2013, and I really couldn't dare to do some new ones, but there is some good news: Due to the current Covid19 situation, there are no group tours now. Instead, you are free to move around at your own pace in what they call "Royal Castle Stroll" or "Königliches Flanieren" in German! For an average visitor, this might be some drawback, but I couldn't be happier to have enough time for a close look at the displayed orders and decorations of Wilhelm I, Wilhelm II and Auguste Victoria. And again, and again... my friends, who are not really into awards were pretty patient as well, luckily. One sad thing however: Some of the attributions cannot be correct, like a Prussian Royal Crown Order 2nd class cross attributed to Kaiser Wilhelm II, or the same with diamonds to his wife Kaiserin Auguste Victoria?! Also, some descriptions had major flaws, with several awards allegedly being made from cast iron instead of the stamped bronze or zinc they actually are. Well, awards are definitely not their main competence... still absolutely worth every visit, if you have a chance!

With all due respect, I tend to disagree: In my eyes, this is a veteran from Hessen-Darmstadt who was involved in the suppression of the democratic revolt in Baden in 1849... the size of the medals, their suspensions and even style of ribbons fits. I also wouldn't assume this man to be extremely old...

This is a third class cross of the second type which was introduced in ca. 1862/63 and was abolished in 1869. From the pictures, it looks fine to me. There were only two makers officially involved making these in the 1860s, from what I have heard, but I couldn't attribute it to the one or the other with only these pictures.

I'm not too much into those battle clasps, but the Godet quality and the fact this is a full display set redeems everything! An absolutely amazing piece, without exaggeration of museum quality. Thanks for sharing, saxcob!

I'm surprised, very surprised by those prices and only paid a fraction for mine, but in my eyes, this is the classical EK reference. It's true the picture quality is obviously 1980s standard, but the shown pieces... I do not know another EK book that doesn't show any (zero!) bullshit crosses. Seems the book became a collectible itself, as do many good, old books when they are out of print. To be honest, this one and Wernitz' 2013 work are the only (printed) references I'm frequently using on Prussian EKs!

From my limited understanding, breast stars are actually the same for both 1st and 2nd class of the order, so this would be a 2nd class set. Also, I think it wouldn't make too much sense if he would wear two different classes at once?!

All could agree upon this group is to a senior NCO, so it has to be with swords. As pointed out earlier in this thread, military personal received this cross always with swords, regardless their actual combatant status, while the other type went to civilians. This does not convince me. The majority of Baden merit medals to Württemberg NCOs and EMs (see Bretzendorfer, pages 26/27) went to the Strasbourg based IR 126, whose "Chef" the Baden Grand Dukes were - but a Württemberg soldier in an Alsace based unit would also receive the Centennial medal! Thus, the latter seems more likely to me, as there's just one yellow ribbon present, and not two of them... What I still don't understand is the two long service awards ribbons. Württemberg NCOs could not only receive the three classes of the 1913 type EM and NCO long service award, but the Dienstehrenzeichen as well. My best guess, and I think I've seen such combinations before, would be a cross for 25 ("officers type") and one for "XV" years. Or could the second ribbon indeed be for the Landwehr award 2nd class?! I'd love to hear what you're thinking...

Finally, I could offer such a cross in my latest update as well, but unfortunately (just for you, not for me), it's already sold. Here's the pictures, for your further reference:

That would be Baden's Felddienstauszeichnung with a metal bow ("Metallschleife") for the 1870 campaign against France. For how the medal and the metal bows looked like, please see here.

Back to the two Grand Cross EKs sold by Thies in his September 2019 sale: Both were award types, but without a known provenience, and the 1870 cross sold for EUR 36,000 while the 1914 cross stuck at EUR 31,000 - each plus 25% fees.

For future references, the cross sold at EUR 11,500 plus fees - definitely not a bargain, but, I'd suggest, well worth the money. Chances are this will be the only authentic, early cross with provenience to appear in an auction for many, many years.

The only actually suprising thing here to me is how incredibly cheap fake badges can be produced and obtained nowadays, somewhere in the world...

Our forum, with all its older entries, is such a wealthy treasure of information. Browsing old threads, I actually found an authentic reduced size Turkish war medal! It has been shown by our dear member Avşar İbar more than twelve years ago. No wonder I couldn't remember ever seeing one...

If only he wore his medal bar or ribbons... this is the Wiegrebe group, that I sold close to two years ago. It came directly from his son's collection, and was auctioned at Künker's. Unattributed, however.

More than ten years later, I think the only thing that's missing here might be a nice portraiture?! Gentlemen, please welcome Oberstleutnant Christian Gockel, naturally or unfortunately with his full size medal bar, and not just the ribbons. The picture is taken from Henning Volle's 2019 Die Orden und tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Großherzogtums und der Republik Baden, where it's used to show medals bars in wear and their precedences.

A great idea and so well executed, thanks Alex! It's good to see I'm not the only one to miss the old days of GMIC... For those of us who have lost their track of time, as I often feel I have: Today, it has been seven years since Rick's untimely loss. He still is and will always be missed as a major part of our community that is, in so many regards, what he (with others, of course) developed it to be.

Lifesaving medals are something really special and among, if not the most distinctive awards - each medal a life saved from greatest danger... you cannot say the same about many other awards! So, despite we have already seen a Bavarian here some thirteen years ago, I'm bumping this thread up with another one, single mounted, that will be in my shop's update tomorrow. Looking their history up, I noticed two things that are most unusual and worth mentioning: Despite their monarchistic design, these were handed out until the early 30s, when they were superseded by a very short lived and thus ultra rare Freistaat type. The other remarkable thing about them: They could be awarded several times to the same person. Not in silver and gold - just silver, exact same ones, as many as you deserved, worn side by side! In fact, two persons won the medal twice, but no one had more than two.

Thanks for the additional pictures, PREM. I agree both our stars are the same variation. I could find one more of these on ebay, sold some weeks ago by cph70. This is one of the well known sellers of dubious pieces. In fact, I have never seen any of their auctions that I felt comfortable with. And this is just one of dozens(!) similar German ebay sellers.

The same point as always: To screw collectors, and to make money. In the past ten or fifteen years, prices for Ottoman awards were absolutely skyrocketing, and the high demand - and prices! - created a legion of fake stars, in several sizes and different qualities. To be honest, I'm not sure if a reduced size of this award was ever made back in the days. I cannot remember one authentic piece (and no, yours won't change my mind). Oversized examples are well known and established, of course. Whoever told you all recent fakes are standard size only apparently doesn't study the fake market or the forums carefully enough. Especially oversized pieces are offered and sold regularly. You're welcome! I'm sometimes buying fakes, knowingly, to study how they are made...

This award document has been sold on ebay recently, and despite I'm neither the seller nor could afford to buy it, I think it's fine to add it to this thread, especially as it's a completely different type than the one shown by Rick back in 2009: