saschaw

Always glad to help! While the mentioned site has many mistakes, it's very useful in general.

Chances are better if you leave the field of EKs: There were probably some few men who won an 1870 KDM and were still "active" in one or the other way to get, as you say, a KVK or a KVK medal. Closest I have in my collection is a medal bar to a veteran of 1870 (no EK winner, though) who got a "Hindenburg cross" without swords in 1934/35 and had his awards newly mounted, in his mid-80s...

It's just a commemorative medal instituted on the occasion of the 100th birthday of late Prince Karl Anton in three grades - gold [silver gilt], silver and bronze - by his grandson, Prince Wilhelm. You can find some additional information on this medal, unfortunately in German only, at Arco's site: https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/goldene-erinnerungsmedaille-an-furst-carl-anton.html https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/silberne-erinnerungsmedaille-an-furst-carl-anton.html

This one is still driving me mad. Any new results or ideas, from anyone, anywhere? I felt like the combination might suggest a navy NCO, so I played around in CSForrester's excel "Gesamtliste". With no result. No Romanian awards to NCOs at all recorded there, nor any from the Prince of Hohenzollern. Surprisingly few British awards as well, but every navy NCO had at least one Russian plus one Ottoman medal. Not really, but that's what scrolling through the list felt like. The smaller "new style" ribbon bar, and I have no doubt they belonged to the same man, seems tidier. Probably the easier way to finally identify him... maybe rather among Prussian officer ranks? I tend to think there are some of those damn "close enough" ribbons being used. The awards the ribbons on Claudio's bar actually stand for cannot make a proper match.

However, a Royal House Order of Hohenzollern would outrank both the Red Eagle and Royal Crown order, unless it's just an Inhaberkreuz, but that, given to oldest NCO ranks, would hardly fit to the officer grade awards. The group has been discussed before, by the way. Feel free to cross-check the older discussion, or maybe someone able to do so wants to unite both threads: https://gmic.co.uk/topic/57799-interesting-bar-but-what-do-you-think-is-missing/ If only a sharp and named portrait with the bar in wear would pop up - as it happend so many times before!

There's hardly anything to add after the textbook explanations Dave Danner has given, but... I'm 99,5 % sure every German, Austrian, Hungarian or Bulgarian soldier who fought in the war could apply for any of those three commemorative medals. Only exception, from what I know, was the Tyrol medal, demanding "being there". I don't have anything handy to back up my claim, but I think that's what I learned here, back in the old days, from Rick Research.

Somewhat late, admittedly, but I agree with ixhs' and paul wood's concerns: This seems to be one more of the countless fakes that are floating the collector market for more than ten years now. The overall quality isn't suitable for a German or Austrian private purchase type in enamel and possibly real silver, as isn't the enamel itself. Also, the patina is artifically applied - it's well done, as you pointed out, but still it's not naturally grown.

Yeah, I see, but we really cannot keep everything... That's still the probably hardest thing for me about being a dealer.

Thank you so much for bringing them back! It was the "brillantiert" star I was referring to, so my mind did play tricks on me indeed. This makes the one "gartered" Fidelitas star Thies auctioned in his US house to only one known to me... and that was apparent fake, and offered as such.

Not only do they both look okay to me, but also I think both are from the award era. I don't see anything pointing to later crosses. With more than five millions awarded and quite some firms involved in producing them, there were minor differences in design, size, and quality, right from the very beginning of an almost tens years era they were awarded. Don't forget, the procedure took until 1924... however, both could be "Great War" era anyway.

I totally agree there were thousands if not tens of thousands of crosses, both classes, handed over by the Kaiser himself, or by the Kronprinz and others - but in most cases, I fear, we just don't know due to the lack of documentation, so it's that what makes these pieces so special. Here's an extraordinary nice and also pretty interesting example I was able to offer last year: The 1st class EK awarded to Bernhard von Schweinitz (1883–1951) in October 1916. He was honor knight of the Johanniterorden, and won, among others, an HOH3X. Furthermore, he was the adjutant of Prussian prince Adalbert! I bought it as a single award, but luckily, in the mean time it could be reunited with his medal and ribbon bars by one of our friends.

I'm sorry I have to say so, Christer, but the thread title was - unintendedly - very well worded: This is a made up set, all of it is fake: the medal, the swords on ring, the sword clasp and the ribbon. I have seen some exact same ones pop up on ebay the last few years, always from the same shady sellers.

I thought there was an article on the medalnet site, but I cannot find it, so I probably confused something. German wikipedia article just states it was introduced on October 1st, 1849. It does indeed seem unclear for what reason: Late Arnhard Graf Klenau, in his amazing 2008 textbook "Orden in Deutschland und Österreich. Band II: Deutsche Staaten (1806–1918). Teil I: Anhalt–Hannover" (p. 216) assumes those awards were related to the revolutionary events of 1848/1849, as none were awarded at later points. It is noteworthy only seven such bows were awarded, all as an addition to persons that were already holding the knight's cross.

Wow, what a beauty - and what a rarity! This one really deserves better pictures...

Thanks for your fast feedback! I'm sorry if I was twisting the knife in that wound... I won't ask again, not even in 2030.

While I think literally everything is faked nowadays, I like the look of this medal. The provided pictures, however, could be somewhat better. As I have never seen (or noticed) another than the standard type of this medal, I checked in Ulrich Klein's and Albert Raff's 2010 book "Die Württembergischen Medaillen von 1864 – 1933 (einschließlich der Orden und Ehrenzeichen)", where this medal is covered on p. 76-79. And indeed, they describe and show a contemporary "wearers copy", probably struck by private Stuttgart firm Mayer & Wilhelm, that seems to be same as yours. Good find, that's a really uncommon and seldom seen variation!

Wow, those are some of the most important German orders that can be found. Thank you for the pictures! A shame some of the pictures in the old threads got lost. Wasn't (isn't) there also a Baden house order breast star with Garter at the Veste Coburg, or is my memory playing tricks on me? If it's not published in this thread, maybe there is none...

I'd still love to see one in red enamel. Any news within the past eleven years, from you, Eric, or someone else? Henning Volle covers the crosses in his new 2019 book "Die Orden und tragbaren Ehrenzeichen des Großherzogtums und der Republik Baden. Freiburg im Breisgau 2019" (p. 596-600), but doesn't show or yet mention a red one - only the well known two types in white and one in pale blue enamel...

You don't have the ebay number or link anymore, by coincidence?

If award type, this medal was made from magnetic steel, yes.

Do you mean this one? http://www.medals.pl/de/de3.htm

I don't find anything unusual or special about it. Possibly an early one, in finer silver than the later issues. Very similar to Württemberg, Hessen - from what I know - never changed to silvered brass or such. They issued "real" silver medals until the end, but purity went down and down, finally ro something like 250/000...

Nice and unusual combination. You won't find the Prussian merit cross in military groups often, as most of them went to railraod officials.

I haven't seen any good fakes of these yet, and assume Brian's explanation might well explain the situation.

I feared so... thanks a lot for clarification, I sent it back today! Maybe I just shouldn't touch Imperial Russian, unaware as I am.