Ed_Haynes

Another old fart adding to the chorus. The price seems certifiably insane, but I'd wager someone will pay it. The "real" ones are, of course, the wartime Ottoman specimens. Some assert that they also awarded the BB&Co ones, though I have never seen convincing evidence (just assertions). Most of these, however, are just postwar jewelers' concoctions, awards from a state that no longer existed (just like the postwar manufacture of all the defunct German imperial awards). Regardless where these are made, they are Ottoman and not German awards. If German jewelers made (as they did) copies of Tsarist Russian awards, would we see them (and categorise them) as "German awards"? Contemporary Libyan awards are mostly made by Italian firms; should they be in the "Italy" section? Only if you wanted to confuse people? I saw this post only bacause I routinely use the "View New Posts" function. Had I looked in the Ottoman category, where I'd expect to find it, I'd have missed this post.

Yes, I am, Francois. I come to this from a number of collecting fields where attribution is more than just word of mouth and intoning "trust me". Sorry, though, if my question offended you. Feel free to ignore it.

Well, I knew I had seen one SOMEWHERE. H. D. Rauch, 29 April 2003 auction, lot D4591. I have no note as to what it sold for, but the estimate was EUR 500. Made by Spink. I cannot find any copyright notice in their catalogue, but I still feel twitchy posting this. If I should remove the image, let me know.

Curious outsider's question: For an unnamed, unnumbered, undocumented award, on what basis are RK collectors able to "attribute" these? Provenance? With what sort or proof and/or documentation?

And wouldn't there likely be a better discussion if this were shifted over to the Ottoman section??

I have had very positive experiences with: http://bulgariana.com/index.php?cPath=60

I nice one, that I need to find. Do you have ascan of a case or anything that shows the real name?

Oh, that is a lovely one.

A stupid question: Does anyone know if Roth worked from the original rolls or from photocopies? If from the originals, it may not be much better than the copies Rick has? Though, sometimes, copies are clearer than the originals. Also, were these rolls prepared in only one copy? Most that I am familiar with (non-German, of course) had multiple copies. If any survive it is a cause for joy, but on occasion, duplicate copies survive and some may be clearer than others. In any case, to use any archives, you need to start with an understanding of how and why and for what purposes any document was created and then, further, understand how and why and by whom they were filed (by what method, if any). When confronting a new body of records, I always want to see the manuals that guided the contemporary officials as to how they shuffled their papers. But, in the final analysis, there may be no option but to use the rolls in the archives?

While Igor's prices always tend toward the high end of the curve, these are the sorts of prices one encounters, yes. For that reason, it has become widely faked. Hence, my questions about my second class.

Or, maybe, just cry. As someone actually buys this dreck, believing they have something collectible and of any value at all.

Very good news.

And a detailed closeup view. Thanks, Owain!

The photo.

Send it to me or Paul, Owain. We can resize and post it. Thanks!

But I still think the basic rule is: Do not sell things you do not possess. The ethics behind this are pretty clear.

Many individials from the vilayats that were made into Iraq after WWI served in the Ottoman army. A nice photo, but not especially surprising. Arabs were well represented in the Ottoman military. They received awards from their government, the Ottoman Empire, and also awards from their wartime ally Germany. DISCLAIMER: Do not read my comments as supportive of the popular (in some circles) fraudulent theory that Iraq is an artificial construct. All nations that aren't islands are, after all, artificial. Iraq is no exception.

Not so hard though, as with most things, it may take some practice. 1- Take you scan (photo) into your image editing program. 2- Reseize it too 666 pixels as its largest dimensions (not for ritual reasons, but because it is easy to type) (or maybe 555?). 3- Save it to disk. 4- Go to the "Select a file"/"browse" section at the bottom of where you enter your message. 5- Find your way to where you saved your image. 6- Upload it. (Important to remember). 7- Add your reply. Should work. But the gods can get angry and the Luddites were right, after all. Hope that helps. By the way: If your image turns out too large, make it smaller by resizing it (see step "2") by making your largest dimension smaller and save it under a new file name (the pesky program has a 'memory') as "Image 1a" or whatever then go to step "4" and try again. Good luck!

This is the only ONLY one. Came "rogued" into a "group" (as referenced above), but my peculiar joy lies in groups (with HISTORY), and partisan groups are almost too good ever to hope for (these dark days of Soviet collecting). But is it "kosher"??? About these medals, I have much fear.

Oh . . . I am in Gotta find one . . .

Yes, Jan. But not so easy anymore. But . . . watch this space . . .

Honestly . . . very honestly . . . this makes me want to weep. That some SOB is selling it . . . .

"Different" or "Faded" (= "later [or earlier] dyes"??)??? But this can't be yours, so the IMAGE is yours . . . but . . . . Don't wanna break the Law and get to go to Cuba via Gitmo?

Yowie!! Lovely!!

As "restored", to find an early (I hope) place on the wall for display.