Daniel Murphy

I have a grouping belonging to W. Ottersbach and have no biographical info on him, nor do I know his first name. Apparrently he was a Prussian administrative official (according to the buttons on the mantel) with the Eisenbahn in 1914 since the right picture was in a locket given to his lady Metika Berger in 1914. Later he transferred to the air service circa 1915 and the other picture he is shown as a pilot in the Turkish service c. 1916-17. I found a picture of him in the old Cross and Cockade series on the Ottoman Air Service and he was at Turkish Flieger Abt. 6 at Chanak Kale in 1917. Although the pictures look slightly different, I have compared the facial features of both pictures and am sure they are both the same man, just taken at different angles. The name was on the inside of his Turkish officers belt which I did not get when the group was split up. His Turkish officers boards which also went elsewhere appeared to be of the rank of Leutnant. The big question is, would an administrative officer of junior rank appear in the ranglists, and I understand German NCO's often recieved officer rank with the Turks, so would he show up there? I would greatly appreciate any help that you can give me on him. here are the pics. Dan Murphy

Here is a close up of the rivets (including where the one is missing) and the silver mark 938.

The reverse.

Here is mine. It belonged to a W. Ottersbach who served at Turkish Flieger Abt. 6 at Chanak Kale and is but one part of his grouping. Unfortunately something snagged on the date and popped it off. Dan Murphy

Beautiful crosses guys. All I have is a screwback Dan Murphy

Exactly what I was thinking, Chip! Actually, 5 and 10 years old is nothing. I heard it was a cradle to grave system, it was just hard to find a helmet to fit the toddlers. Dan Murphy

The standard button that is used to button the front flap should be facing to the left. The only time a right facing button is used, is when there are button applied side by side. When this is done the lions on the buttons should face each other. As shown here. Dan Murphy

Andreas, Beautiful group (as always). Made even better with the family history and the mans personal unit history. Not trying to get off topic , but this reminded me of something. I have a grouping of a well decorated British Royal Naval Division officer who moved to the US after the war. His notations in his unit history were fascinating. At one point he drew a little trench map in it and marked an X with "Killed two Germans with handgrenades here". I hope you find some great notes in his book. Dan Murphy

Is that all? They must have ignored the minor variants That is the great thing about the 1914 Iron Cross. No matter how many you have, there is always something to strive for. Nice cross Joel, I wish you many more. Dan Murphy

Yes, I thought it would be some Queens solid gold...um....um... Nevermind. Dan Murphy

The Germans had many more English tanks than their own, however some may have been too far gone to fix. Like this one that absorbed 3 shells. And that is just on this side. Dan Murphy

Lets see. 1 full dress boards worn with breastplate. 2 Breast plate does not fit. 3 sash worn with breastplate. 4 generals tricter and plume. 5 bavarian knot worn on prussian sword which is not the right pattern for a Kurrasier. Am I close? Other than that, if I didn't know better, I would say "Wow!". Dan Murphy

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Gentlemen, I never thought this would happen, but I have accidentally misrepresented an item as original that was not. I purchased this item from a less than ethical seller who bought it from the original owner. I believed the item to be real. However, I have been informed by the original owner (via Stogieman) that this item was not from WW1. I was and still am upset about this. I sincerely apologize to the Chairman, Moderators and Members of this forum for this and will do everything in my power to see that it will never happen again. Daniel Murphy

Tom, Just about every 2 piece core EK2 I have seen has that VERY pronounced crown like yours. This feature is much easier to stamp out than it is to cast and is, aside from the lightness, another way to tell them apart from the regular cast iron cored piece. Plus this feature can be picked out in a photo if you are buying online. Dan Murphy

Gorgeous, it just reeks of class. Dan Murphy

That is exactly what it is. The shaft of these was normally made of paper disks cut from post cards and letters the soldier received during his two (or three ) years of service . Yup thats what they did. Since he is wearing a Bluse, this man most likely served before the war and got it then and was called up from the reserves in 1914. This cane is not something that would be carried in the field, so I would say that with the lack of insignia he has been discharged in 1918-19 and is back home. Odd that there is no rank or decorations though, but it is possible. Dan Murphy

Not to mention many of the smaller dogs such as terriers were used to hunt and kill rats. Dan Murphy

Chip, I had no idea they were made from papercloth, but so many things were it makes sense. I have a black papercloth set of drill uniform top and bottom and a harness strap of some sort made from it. If you ever decide to part with those straps, let me know. Dan Murphy

I would say it probably just a certain manufacturers variant design. There were many companies that produced these buckles under contract and for retail sale to One Year Volunteers, Fahnrichs and NCOs who just wanted something better than was issued. Just like for an Iron Cross, they had to look enough alike but no two manufacturers made exactly the same one. Dan Murphy

I have never seen a nickel plated buckle like that. I am assuming the center is nickel silver since there is a lot of wear and no brass showing through. There are two possibilities here from my point of view. First, an NCO in a pioneer or guard regiment (with nickel buttons, helmet fittings etc. ) who purchased his own belt and buckle and had the buckle nickle plated so it would match everything else. Second, it was done as a war souvenir by the doughboy who brought it back ( fairly common, it was done with guns etc.) and the wear to the plating is from 90 years of being handled, played with, misused etc. I prefer what is behind door number one myself. It looks to have been on a belt for many years, did you get it also? Since the marking is so poorly stamped, I would say it is the owners initials from scenario #1. The fist pattern 1895 buckles had a christian cross with rays on the crown until about 1900, then the pattern illustrated was used until 1915 when the brass buckles were no longer made. Dan Murphy

Tim, Thank you very much. I bought it as original but not at any fantastic price ( I can't remember but it wasn't really high) and had always wondered. I agree that it is not officer grade and probably an issue one due to it being made from such thin brass. I have had it about 7-8 years and if they had been faking them, I would think some would have come to light by now. Dan Murphy

oops.

Normally, from what I understand, the medal was only supposed to be worn in the buttonhole on the day it was awarded. However it is also possible that this was done when posing for a photo such as the TR period picture above. I have also seen studio photos of Bavarian generals with their Max Josef order in the buttonhole. However I have never seen an imperial ribbon altered with buttonholes added (such as like a Blood Order) for wearing like that. I was just not done to my knowledge. What I have seen in a picture was an officer wearing his EK2 from what looks like a hook hidden under the edge of his buttonhole ribbons. Here is the picture. Any guess on what the second ribbon is? Oldenburg? Dan Murphy