Daniel Krause

Komtur hits the point to clear things up. "Kleindekoration" in Prussia means exactly that medal bar sized Crosses on trifold ribbons for the 1st classes and Grand crosses for the Prussian Orders. The wear of Mini devices for higher grades on Ribbon bars were never official for German awards until 1957, except the Volkspflege and Olympic awards, but it WAS official for foreign awards already in the 30ies. Anyway, a good couple of people, even "mortals" did so. Claudio has a very nice ribbon bar from a Sachsen-Weimar Prince with 3 Mini Stars of Thuringian States Grand crosses on it. We have seen here the ribbon bars of General von Dincklage-Campe wearing at least 6 ribbons representing higher classes normally worn around the neck. In the Military Museum in Dresden is the grouping of General Ernst Gruson, also wearing 3 Commander classes on the ribbon bar but not with stars, just with devices like for a knights cross. Here is one example like this. This bar shows on the 7th position a Bulgarian Alexander with silver device. The W?rttemberg Crown Order on 3rd Pos. indicates a wartime MAjor, the bar is wartime only, so no old peacetime awards are shown. So the only possibility is, that the Bulgarian is not a Lieutentants-level Knights cross of the Alex, but a Commanders "Kleindekoration". Best regards Daniel

Hi Friends, all in all I have already 610 REAL dates for Hohenzollern Knights crosses with swords in WW1. Thanks to all of You for showing me Your stuff. But there are still some more around, or??? Best regards Daniel

Hi Friends, niiiiice photograph and even nicer that he put his name on the back. I did already some research but did not come closer than to about 10 possible people. Medal bar screams to be War ministry. That "V"-shaped Litzen are definetly "Intelligenzlitzen", means Engineer troops, no General staff or War ministry. His W?rttemberg Wilhelmscross was not published in their Personalnachrichten. Best regards Daniel

Hi Tilo, did You buy it? I think I know who it is. Gr??e Daniel

congraulations to Your nice bar! Actually he was not OGruF, he was Oberf?hrer, so a colonel plus. There was a very impressive article about the v.Rabens in the German Collecors magazine. I hope the Author will forgive me that I post a Portrait out of it here: Best regards Daniel

o.k. The higher classes I left out, because the original question was for a MVK, not the higher MVO?s. Officers pinback was for Full Colonels in special assignments, like Chief of a General Staff of an Army or Army Corps. Commander for Major Generals Commander with Star to LtGen 1st Class to commanding (full) Generals Grand Cross for Colonel Generals and Field Marshals Best regards Daniel

Hi friends, sources, sources, sources.....nearly EVERY thing was regulated in the old times: Morgenroth, W.: Bayerisches Jahrbuch 1916, Ein Hand- und Nachschlagebuch f?r B?ro, Kontor und Haus nebst Kalender, 29.Jahrgang, M?nchen o.J. Milit?rverdienstorden: 3.Klasse mit Krone: Obersten (Regimentskommandeure usw.) 3.Klasse: Oberstleutnante (Bataillonskommandeure usw.) 4.Klasse mit Krone: Majore 4.Klasse: Leutnante, Oberleutnante, Hauptleute MVK 1.Klasse mit Krone: mittlere Beamte des Kriegsministeriums MVK 1.Klasse: Feldwebelleutnante und sonstige mittlere Beamte MVK 2.Klasse mit Krone: Offiziersstellvertreter, Unterzahlmeister, Musikmeister usw. MVK 2.Klasse: Vizefeldwebel, Feldwebel, F?hnriche MVK 3.Klasse mit Krone: Unteroffiziere und Sergeanten MVK 3.Klasse: Mannschaften Best regards Daniel

yup, easily. SA3bX as 1st Lt, short after promotion to Captain followed the SA3aX. If he would have earned a 2nd award before he made Capt, he would have gotten the SV3bX. Best regards Daniel

Hi Mark, generally, other Germans got exactly the same classes than the Prussian Officers. Non-Germans got it in same rank or one Rank lower than the Prussians. 4th class the Captains - same as the Prussians 3rd Class the Majors - in Prussia a colonels award 2nd class went to foreign Colonels - in Prussia a Major-Generals award. Best regards Daniel

Hi Igor, apart of the plm he had: Hohenzollern knights cross with swords Prussian lifesaving medal Hamburg Hanseatic Cross Oldenburg lifesaving medal Ernestinian House Order knight 1st class with sword submarine badge Best regards Daniel

not really.... WF can be peacetime, can be with swords, Olga can be the Order, can be a Karl Olga medal.... too many unsure things. Sorry at the moment Best regards Daniel

great job Paul!!!! Congrats!!! Best regards Daniel

Hi, just checked the KO list for 1913-1918. NO KO3 to Wanner.... I do not think this bar was ID?d before. It used to be in ony Colson?s collection, un-ID?d, and I think it went without a name to Thies. Best regards Daniel

Hi friends, I do not want to spoil the evening - SURE IT IS HIM????? NO Prussian Award in 1914 listed, but the bar shows a RAO4, KO3, EK2, 2 red cross medals, war aid cross.... I do not worry for EK and war aid, I do not worry for both red cross medals but why the hell...... beside of this FOUR decorations from Prussia he should have gotten TWO MORE ORDERS in the middle of the war? No, I cannot believe that some civilian like him got SIX awards from Prussia in 1914-1918. And his Homeland gave him nothing else than the poor Charlotte cross? No Wilhelms Cross, no Olga Order? I have the Crown Order list for WW1 and will check tomorrow if he is in. I believe we have to look for somebody who has at least one of the Prussian Orders already in 1914, most likely also a W?rttemberg Crown Order pinback grade. Best regards Daniel

@ Stijn David: loovely bar, I would like to see a whole pic of that guy. @ Bernd: sch??n!!! Stuhlmanns gro?e Spange war vor vielen Jahren bei Graf Klenau zu haben. Best regards Daniel

Hi Friends, 5 of our volumes are at the publisher. - Princely Hohenzollern - Weimar - the 3 Ernestines - non-W?rttemberg Awards to W?rttemberg personnel in WW1 - heavily overworked Waldeck I?m WAAAITTING now to know what they will cost and when they will be available. It depends now how fast they can be printed. We will keep You posted for any progress. Just that You know, Better buy Your volumes as soon as they are available than to wait a year or so. This Volumes will have veery small editions of lets say 40 each. No more, because there are not so many guys interested in like in a novel by Tom Clancy. So if You wait iuntil they are sold out You may have to wait 5 to 10 years for a 2nd edition. Best regards Daniel

MY GOODNESS!!!!! Andreas, where do You have that treasure from?????? 18 times awarded..... Beste Gr??e Daniel

Yes, he can Krenzlin received a non-swords Waldeck officers cross IN WW1! There are some awards without swords to rear-area guys. Beste Gr??e Daniel

..forgot the pic...

not polish, Sachsen-Weimar. Best regards Daniel Krause BTW Krenzlins medal bar was sold at Graf Klenau many years ago.

Hi Friends, just great!!!! after just one day such a lot of answers!!! Thanks a lot and let them coming... Best regards Daniel

Hi Sascha, Generalleutnant Rudolf Keppler, born 1852, died 1940. Best regards and see You in SDA Daniel

Hi Friends, as Rick would say, one of my 47 parallel projects is an upgrade of the existing Roll for the House Order of Hohenzollern with swords. For that I need Your help to improve the list. From the old list done by Willi Geile I could already erase a lot of mistakes and add around 150 more recipients. But that is not enough. We want to be close to perfect. Please assist me and show me Your documents, bars, portraits from Your collections. Thanks a lot Daniel

yes, but even for this 1917 list, there are NO colonial medals mentioned. Unless a cross-check in the Orders Almanach brings a success.. Anyway, I do not think that there are that many of salesman examples. This small "navy style" trapezoids have more been a fashion than official. Big Trapezoids and the new M1915 were the official ones. Best regards Daniel

mini chain was requested... here it is. It is indeed highly unusual, that he received the RAO4 short before the outbreak of the war in 1914, he shows it at the big bar and the mini chain but it does NOT appear at the ribbon bar.... Best regards Daniel