Luftmensch Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 For any who don't want to wait to start contributing to Rick's defence fund, you can paypall me at omigoddidjaseewhattheydidtorick@att.net...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Ooooooooo, now I'm "channeling" Jimmy Cagney as Cody Jarrett in the last scene of "White Heat." Hey! I know what? How about a MASSIVE "civil disobedience" at the S.O.S.????I will go to swell the number of buses they will need. THAT'LL get some press. People have to STAND. There has to be a LINE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 without bringing politics into this....Is there a particular "side" pushing for this law?
Guest Rick Research Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 No.It is the sole example I can recall in the last 6 years of mutually-admiring universal bipartisan IDIOCY. But then that is the one thing--aside from delusions of grandeur (Chris-freakin' DODD?????????????????????????) that they all have IN COMMON.
Ed_Haynes Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) without bringing politics into this....Is there a particular "side" pushing for this law?Yes, the pressure is from self-appointed hyper patriots addicted to kinky hero worship who wish to wrap their pitiful selves in the protective symbolic enbrace of "veterans" and defend them from the imagined legions of veteran wanna-be Walter Mittys who are "out there" all wanting to dress up and pretend they got Army Good Conduct Medals. All quite clinically delusional, but they'e there, and loud, and influential. And, in this stage in the lifetime of the USA, you can wrap anything up in phoney patriotism and the Congress will gobble it down, no matter how fecal, especially in an election year when no one on the Hill thinks about anything except strutting about for votes. And, here as elsewhere, no one dares speak up about the Emperor's sartorial choices.See: http://www.homeofheroes.com/The degree to which serious phaleristics in the US has been misserved and rendered invisible just makes this all the easier . . . . We are just seen as something lodged between the American Legion and a flock of gun-nuts and no one wants to listen. This has gotta be fixed!! (Close that barn door after the horse is gone?) Edited January 17, 2007 by Ed_Haynes
Hauptmann Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 A shame though that so many of these "patriots" are the ones who also voted to screw so many vets out of their medical benefits! But of course they won't bring that up will they? If they'd wanted to honor the vets then they should have left that one on the scrap heap of history.Politicians are all crooked as a dogs hind leg! Dan
Luftmensch Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 Every politician who wants to run again could just see their opponents campaign ad down the road..."He voted AGAINST the Stolen Valor Act" in that moviefone voice. I think that's about as far as they analyse this in their minds...
Daniel Cole Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 I believe the wife of the Home of Heroes website geek was the initial driver in this scherade. That web site is too much too stomach.
hunyadi Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 In a rahter pointless and silent protest I took down all of my US medals from the display case. Put them in boxes and tucked them away behind the solid doors on the lower shelf of another display case. Since the US government has seen fit that I should no longer have the right to obtain them in any form and in lieu - should never have the right to look at them or for others to see them and tell of the heroic deeds behind them. Never mind that the grandson was going to throw them away after he went to the flea market to see if anyone would give him five bucks for that WW2 purple heart with oak leaf cluster...never mind that at all.So now - the vacant space is filled with a display of militaria: Communist, Nazi and Imperial
Kev in Deva Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 So now - the vacant space is filled with a display of militaria: Communist, Nazi and Imperial.Ah! I see a tasteful collection developing, better not to break the law old bean, but you need more Romanian items though K. I. D.P.S. in reality the S.V.A. was just a way for the authorities to hound ordinary, harmless militaria collectors, (like Rick,) and take the heat of certain politicians whose own medals awards and military service have been called into question Kevin in Deva
Dave Danner Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 without bringing politics into this....Is there a particular "side" pushing for this law?If by "side" you mean political or ideological movement, no. And notwithstanding Ed's statements, "the pressure ... from self-appointed hyper patriots addicted to kinky hero worship" is difficult to square with the legislative history. The main self-appointed hyperpatriots seem to be at that Home of Heroes site and in Agent Cottone's mirror every morning.The Stolen Valor Act was sponsored in the United States Senate by Kent Conrad, a North Dakota Democrat. Conrad is considered a "moderate" Democrat (though I suppose moderate depends on where you stand - to a progressive, Conrad is probably too conservative, to a conservative, Conrad is probably too liberal). Conrad's "moderate" positions are mainly a degree of fiscal conservatism (though given the behavior of Republican Congresses over the past decade or so, fiscal conservatism has no real partisan meaning anymore) and more centrist views on abortion (generally pro-choice but opposed to partial birth abortion, for example). As for foreign policy, Burns voted against both Iraq use of force resolutions - in 1991 and in 2002.The Stolen Valor Act received 27 co-sponsors in the United States Senate, 15 Republicans and 12 additional Democrats.Republicans:Wayne Allard, R-COConrad Burns, R-MTSaxby Chambliss, R-GAElizabeth Dole, R-NC Michael Enzi, R-WY Chuck Hagel, R-NEJohnny Isakson, R-GATim Johnson, R-SDPat Roberts, R-KSRick Santorum, R-PAArlen Specter, R-PA Ted Stevens, R-AK Craig Thomas, R-WY John Thune, R-SD David Vitter, R-LA Democrats:Jeff Bingaman, D-NMRobert C. Byrd, D-WVHillary Rodham Clinton, D-NY Daniel K. Inouye, D-HI Frank Lautenberg, D-NJ Joe Lieberman, D-CT Blanche Lincoln, D-AR Robert Menendez, D-NJ Ben Nelson, D-NE Mark Pryor, D-AR John D. Rockefeller IV, D-WV Ken Salazar, D-CO Two of these senators - Burns and Santorum - lost reelection bids in 2006, so don't bother writing notes to their offices. While some can be easily pigeonholed and casually dismissed, a number of these U.S. Senators, notably Chuck Hagel and Daniel Inouye, aren't exactly known for their "kinky hero worship." On the House of Representatives side, the House version was sponsored by John T. Salazar, a Democrat from Colorado and brother of Sen. Ken Salazar (a Senate co-sponsor above). And notwithstanding Dan's comment above, one of Salazar's main issues is veterans' benefits. Salazar is also a member of the Blue Dog Coalition, a coalition of moderate (there's that word again) and conservative Democrats.Salazar's bill had 111 co-sponsors: 38 Republicans and 73 additional Democrats:Republicans:Rodney Alexander, R-LASpencer Bachus, R-ALBob Beauprez, R-COSherwood Boehlert, R-NYHenry Bonilla, R-TXDan Burton, R-INSteve Buyer, R-INKen Calvert, R-CAGeoff Davis, R-KYPhil English, R-PAMike Ferguson, R-NJJeff Fortenberry, R-NEVito Fossella, R-NYScott Garrett, R-NJSam Graves, R-MOJohn Kline, R-MNMark Green, R-WIRobin Hayes, R-NCJohn N. Hostettler, R-INSue W. Kelly, R-NYJohn R. "Randy" Kuhl, Jr., R-NYJerry Lewis, R-CARon Lewis, R-KYDonald Manzullo, R-ILThad McCotter, R-MIMarilyn Musgrave, R-COAnne Northup, R-KYTed Poe, R-TXRick Renzi, R-AZHarold Rogers, R-KYMike J. Rogers, R-MIRob Simmons, R-CTChris Smith, R-NJTom Tancredo, R-COLee Terry, R-NEZach Wamp, R-TNEd Whitfield, R-KYFrank Wolf, R-VADemocrats:Thomas H. Allen, D-MEJoe Baca, D-CABrian Baird, D-WAJohn Barrow, D-GAShelley Berkley, D-NVMarion Berry, D-ARMadeleine Bordallo, D-GUDan Boren, D-OKLeonard Boswell, D-IAAllen Boyd, D-FLSherrod Brown, D-OHDennis Cardoza, D-CAJulia Carson, D-INEd Case, D-HIBen Chandler, D-KYJohn Conyers, Jr. D-MIJim Cooper, D-TNJim Costa, D-CARobert "Bud" Cramer, Jr. D-ALHenry Cuellar, D-TXLincoln Davis, D-TNLloyd Doggett, D-TXRahm Emanuel, D-ILBob Filner, D-CAHarold Ford, Jr., D-TNCharles Gonzalez, D-TXBart Gordon, D-TNGene Green, D-TXRaul Grijalva, D-AZLuis Gutierrez, D-ILAlcee Hastings, D-FLStephanie Herseth, D-SDMaurice Hinchey, D-NYRub?n Hinojosa, D-TXTim Holden, D-PAMike Honda, D-CADarlene Hooley, D-ORSteny Hoyer, D-MDSteve Israel, D-NYEddie Bernice Johnson, D-TXDale Kildee, D-MIJim Marshall, D-GAJim Matheson, D-UTCarolyn McCarthy, D-NYJim McDermott, D-WAMike McIntyre, D-NCKendrick Meek, D-FLCharlie Melancon, D-LARobert Menendez, D-NJMichael Michaud, D-MEDennis Moore, D-KSGrace Napolitano, D-CASolomon P. Ortiz, D-TXNancy Pelosi, D-CACollin Peterson, D-MNEarl Pomeroy, D-ND Nick Joe Rahall, II, D-WVSilvestre Reyes, D-TXMike Ross, D-ARSteven Rothman, D-NJTim Ryan, D-OHAdam Schiff, D-CAJos? Serrano, D-NYAdam Smith, D-WATed Strickland, D-OHJohn Tanner, D-TNGene Taylor, D-MSMike Thompson, D-CAMark Udall, D-COTom Udall, D-NMNydia M. Velazquez, D-NYDiane Watson, D-CAAlbert Wynn, D-MDThat's a lot of names, and most are unfamiliar even to political junkies (and I have no idea how many of them are out of the House after the 2006 elections). But a few things stand out:That list of 73 Democrats includes, besides Salazar, 29 other members of the Blue Dog Coalition. So conservative Democrats are fairly well represented. However, the list also includes 13 members of the House Progressive Caucus, the coalition of the most left-wing members of the House. It also includes a number of members of the Democratic Party establishment with good liberal credentials: among them Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emanuel, Bob Menendez (now a U.S. Senator), and Ted Strickland (now Governor of Ohio).
Luftmensch Posted January 17, 2007 Author Posted January 17, 2007 So ignorance and opportunism knows no political bounds...or else OMSA failed to get the message out?
hunyadi Posted January 17, 2007 Posted January 17, 2007 Ah! I see a tasteful collection developing, better not to break the law old bean, but you need more Romanian items though K. I. D.What do you think came out of the box that the US items went into...All kidding aside - I see a very nice list of names that I am more than willing to plaster on some envilopes and mail letters to. However - I am about as dumb as they come and would not be able to properly express my words to show my displeasure and to cry out for help from this band of gangsters to help right what they made wrong. A nice form letter perhaps? Ed, Rick???
Daniel Cole Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 What if we all send to our various representative one of our duplicate, new issue purple hearts, DSC, navy cross, etc. with a note saying these of from my collection of what is now "stolen valor" contraband> Come and arrest me.
yank44 Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 The spirit of the law is obvious. I don't understand why there are no exceptions. If I am re-enacting at the Rhinebeck Aerodrome as a WWI pilot, will I be arrested for the rack on my tunic? Being in my thirties, I find it hard to believe that I am stealing the valor of somebody who fought in a war that ended in 1918. Idiocy...pure idiocy.
Ed_Haynes Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 The spirit of the law is obvious. I don't understand why there are no exceptions. If I am re-enacting at the Rhinebeck Aerodrome as a WWI pilot, will I be arrested for the rack on my tunic? Being in my thirties, I find it hard to believe that I am stealing the valor of somebody who fought in a war that ended in 1918. Idiocy...pure idiocy. There is no provision to protect either phalerists nor reenactors. The older provisions protecting legitimate dramatic presentations presumably continue, though that too is vague in the new idiocy. It may be that the "Stolen Valor" law cannot be enforced, but -- all joking and posturing aside -- no serious test case seems advisable until things clarify.I hope the OMSA is doing something, but I had hoped they were doing something before the legislation passed. So far as I know, no one from the OMSA testified before the committees that considered this legislation and there was no OMSA "door-knock" effort in DC.
Ed_Haynes Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 Ed Maier has posted his draft letter over at the OMSA website and coupled his letter, appropriately, with a visit to his member of congress' local office.See: http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1356FYI and action.
hunyadi Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 Thanks Ed - With that letter as a base, I think that I can calmly write an apropriate letter.
Ed_Haynes Posted January 18, 2007 Posted January 18, 2007 Thanks Ed - With that letter as a base, I think that I can calmly write an apropriate letter. It will take a lot of work customising, but it has to be done.
IMPERIAL QUEST Posted May 14, 2007 Posted May 14, 2007 A shame though that so many of these "patriots" are the ones who also voted to screw so many vets out of their medical benefits! But of course they won't bring that up will they? If they'd wanted to honor the vets then they should have left that one on the scrap heap of history.Politicians are all crooked as a dogs hind leg! Dan Yes, indeed. This is just another incompetent political gesture to make the American public think that the government actually cares about its vets...yea, right. Those who collect US militaria will not allow this latest "law" to change anything, so really it is a non-issue.
Chris Boonzaier Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 Just stumbled in this by chance.... Whats the latest state of affirs in this issue?
Paul R Posted October 9, 2012 Posted October 9, 2012 The Stolen Valor Act is no more... it was deemed to be against a person's First Ammendment right to free speech.
dond Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 The Stolen Valor Act is no more... it was deemed to be against a person's First Ammendment right to free speech. That means you can lie about the award but possessing one is still illegal as far as I know.
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