Soviet Who began his Soviet awards collection during the Soviet area ?

[Christophe]

I was thinking about this : who began his Soviet awards collection during the Soviet area ?

At that time, before 1991, I believe it was extremely difficult to get / collect Soviet medals.

I personally began in Summer 1992, my first Soviet order being a Red Star Order.

But, you when did you start collecting Soviet Awards ? Have some of you succeeded in getting Soviet awards in their collection before the end of the Soviet Union ? And, if yes, how did you manage this ?

And if you have been awarded Soviet orders or medals (that you began to "collect" ), please let us also know...

Can you tell us more about this ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Christian Zulus]

I was thinking about this : who began his Soviet awards collection during the Soviet area ?

At that time, before 1991, I believe it was extremely difficult to get / collect Soviet medals.

I personally began in Summer 1992, my first Soviet order being a Red Star Order.

But, you when did you start collecting Soviet Awards ? Have some of you succeeded in getting Soviet awards in their collection before the end of the Soviet Union ? And, if yes, how did you manage this ?

And if you have been awarded Soviet orders or medals (that you began to "collect" ), please let us also know...

Can you tell us more about this ?

Cheers.

Ch.

Dear Christophe,

my first Soviet Medal had been "40-Years-of-Victory", which I got 1992 from my girlfriend, who bought it at a flea-market in Berlin. I actually started collecting in january 1994.

I have been awarded only post-Soviet Medals from the Ukraine:

- "50-Years-of-Victory" by the Military Attach? in Vienna

- "Gold Medal of the Ukrainian Army" (tablemedal) by the Military Attach? in Vienna

- "40-Years-Liberation of Kiev" (heavyweight tablemedal) by Lt.-Gen. Sabilyi, Military Commander of Kiev

I got these medals in the mid 1990s for cultural & touristic merits towards the Ukrainian Army .

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

I just recall seeing them Way Back When with numbers scratched out (to foil the KGB chaps who came with their magnifying glasses to OMSA conventions the same way the FBI does today) and at OBSCENE prices, worse than the very worst you see today. Their sex appeal and political attraction was outweighed by their pricetag for a university student. I pity those who bought Soviet ODM in the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s.

That's one youthful desire I can now fulfill!

[Guest RedThreat]

Though illegal, medals made it to the market in Soviet times. When my dad was a child in the 1950's, he traded coins and some military memorabilia with other kids. At one point he had FB medal which he later traded for Victory over Germany medal to give to his dad to replace the lost one. On a Russian forum, 1 collector wrote that his grandma traded his late grandpa's Nevsky and 2 OPWs (all on suspension) for food soon after the war.

Simon

[Wild Card]

I can remember back in the 80?s when Graf Klenau regularly had a Red Banner or two in his auctions. The going price was $300. I don?t think that serial numbers had any significance at that time; and then in the early 90?s when we used to see shoe boxes of them and Red Stars at the OMSA conventions. Who would ever collect this stuff?!

[NavyFCO]

My first awards were bought on Izmailova Market in April 1992, so I missed the "Soviet" period. (Though I did start collecting Soviet uniforms/insignia back in the 1980s, and they were VERY expensive!) However, I did meet a handful of collectors who all lamented buying awards before the end of the USSR. I can remember one guy who paid something like $200 for a For Valor medal. As Ed says, the prices back then make even the craziest of prices now look positively cheap!

It must have been a real shock to those pre-fall of the USSR collectors to see the shows as Wild Card describes them.... boxes and boxes of Red Stars, OGPWs, etc., way more of them than anyone would ever think of collectors buying them. As one dealer told me in about 1996 or 1997 as I was looking though binder after binder of Glory 3rds, Red Stars, etc: "Make me an offer on all this $*@(. No one wants to buy it and I just want to dump it all...." Note that as it was, there were only a few of the awards that he had priced over $15 anyway, and most were around $10 and below... Yeah, those were the days......

Dave

Edited January 22, 2007 by NavyFCO

[Chris Boonzaier]

If I had known in 1992 what i know now... I would have tossed the german stuff and waded in to the soviet.

[Christophe]

So, until now, no one really started collecting Soviet Awards during the Soviet area ?

None of us succeeded in getting Soviet awards in their collection before the end of the Soviet Union ?

More comments to come ?

Ch.

[JimZ]

1993 here! Missed by it by a few years

Chris hit the nail on its head. I missed out on a sh_tload of opportunities at the time although for some years I did have limited access to choice material for my collection Then again literature was also non existent at the time! Although with hindsight... blind collecting would have made sense in any case!! In fact at the time another collector I knew did just that.... bought all he could! Although I have not met him in some 12 years, I should really meet up with the guy to review his collection. I bet he's got some gems that he is not even aware of!

Well....not to miss the next time round..... anyone has his eyes on China as the next possibly anachronistic communist regime awaiting for market and political refrorm? (.....interesting one huh!!!)

Jim

[Hendrik]

Hello All,

The first Soviet medal to enter my collection : 6 November 1989, Defence of Leningrad Medal purchased with Spink & Son, London ...

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Belaruski]

Dare we ask how much?

[Hendrik]

Dare we ask how much?

With hindsight, far too much (and Spink & Son aren't the cheapest dealers around either) ... a wopping 45 Euros by today's standards ! If only Gorby had let me in on his plans for later

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Christian Zulus]

With hindsight, far too much (and Spink & Son aren't the cheapest dealers around either) ... a wopping 45 Euros by today's standards ! If only Gorby had let me in on his plans for later

Cheers,

Hendrik

Dear Hendrik,

you can be happy, that you didn't purchase a Lenin T 6 for about USD 10k .

Best regards

Christian

[sovvisor]

Dear Hendrik,

you can be happy, that you didn't purchase a Lenin T 6 for about USD 10k .

Best regards

Christian

Hi

I started my collecting in Hungary in 1987 with 10 jubelee medals and an air force officers visor. Pretty cheap back then. In 1989-90 you could by the letter get a bucket of red stars in Estonia for 5 usd. I didn?t buy one!

[Guest Rick Research]

I have (but luckily did not have to pay for!) one of the erased number Red Stars, given to me as Suddenly Worthless after the collapse.

1994 for me.

Luckily I had suffered through (and I mean SUFFERED) several years of Russian in school under the 1970s assumption that Things Would Never Change...

thus allowing me to cherry pick goodies in that first outwash of items up for sale. I have yet to see another 1960s ex-Partisan ID to a battalion commander....

But I can still hum "the Internationale," just in case.

[Paul R]

you can be happy, that you didn't purchase a Lenin T 6 for about USD 10k .

Lenins were going for 10,000 dollars?!?!? Did the Order have the number or was it obiterated as well? I would love to hear a price list as to what the others were going for!

[NavyFCO]

blind collecting would have made sense in any case!! In fact at the time another collector I knew did just that.... bought all he could! Although I have not met him in some 12 years, I should really meet up with the guy to review his collection. I bet he's got some gems that he is not even aware of!

I remember a few collectors who I sold awards to back in the late 90s and early 2000s who shortly thereafter stopped collecting Soviet awards and kept what they had... it does make you wonder what "good" stuff is still around out there that folks don't know that they have...

Dave

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

I did actually start out a few years before the wall fell... but not with awards. At a small gun dealer in Florida I found several pieces I was interested in. One is the Type 14 Nambu I still have... another was one of the WWII British Enfield revolvers and the third was a Nagant Soviet officers pistol dated 1939. The Nambu was $300 and I grabbed that quick. The Brit was $250 and the Soviet $200... I picked the Nagant. And although I love it I wish I'd gone the extra $50 and gotten the Brit. Later, when the Nagant's were going for like $40 to $50 with all their accessories, holsters, etc. I was a bit depressed. But then I'd go and spend some time with it and remember how much I love it and all was right with the world again.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7987&hl=nagant

I started into awards and uniforms and such right after the wall fell. I'd seen a few things in books over the years and had always had an intense interest in learning more about Soviet militaria... just not much out there at the time. Still not nearly enough in English.

My first piece was one (I believe... I'd know it if I saw it down in the bunker... but too relaxed to go down right now) of the anniversary of Victory medals with document... and a few of the small collector pins which were really cheap. I think I got the medal and doc for like $15 or thereabouts so don't think I did too terribly bad. This was literally when stuff first started hitting the market. The same dealer had a Red Star on consignment. I fell in love... that beautiful red enamel... but at a $350 price tag (and don't think I didn't seriously contemplate it) I finally just had to pass it up. Needless to say I'm so glad I did! Of course knowing my luck it had a really good serial number or was one of the rare types or something, but in those days SN's didn't even enter into it.

I also managed to get an Air Force tunic and a naval greatcoat, a few caps and such. I did make another mistake in that I had a choice in helmets between one of the early Soviet helmets with the flared edges and such or a DDR helmet. I picked the DDR. Again you can still get those for dirt whereas the early Soviet ones are really up there.

Had a friend who called me literally right after the wall fell. He asked me if I was still into that "military stuff". Turns out he'd been there at the time and said the guards and troops would give you just about anything for packs of cigs and such. Said he could have gotten me tons of stuff. But of course he'd gotten a few things for himself, mostly hat badges and small pins... no awards I'm sorry to say, but he did get a nice pocket watch. But he calls me after he's back out of that section of Europe and can't get more. Like, why torture me like that... at the time I could have sent him enough money to buy a gazillion packs of cigs and he could have brought me back a gazillion goodies! Arrrrrrrrrrgh! Sigh. Ya win some and ya lose some I guess.

But I totally agree with Chris that had I known then what I know now I'd have sold off just about every bit of TR I had and bought all the good Soviet stuff I could get my hands on and then some! Oh those were the days!

Dan

[Christian Zulus]

Lenins were going for 10,000 dollars?!?!? Did the Order have the number or was it obiterated as well? I would love to hear a price list as to what the others were going for!

Dear Paul,

I have read about a case, where a Lenin T 6 (with ereased s/n.) had been sold in the 1970s for even more, than USD 10k. I think, that the medal had come from a recipient, who was living in the west, due to fact, that the "export" of the top order of the CCCP would have been an extremly risky venture.

Lenins, Octoberrevolutions, HSUs, etc. had been extremly rare at the market in the 1970s - not so the anniversary medals.

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

Well, here are some items. From the 90th Graf Klenau auction, 23 March 1974.

Remember:

1- This is an auction. These are estimated starting prices. I have mislaid the "prices realised" sheet.

2- The prioces are in DM (remember them), 1974 DM.

3- The authenticity of some items is dubious. Possible to get here (only), mounted in a group, the famous super-rare Klenau-special fantasy Kutuzov 3rd class on pentagonal suspension. (Item 3813.)

Edited February 2, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[order_of_victory]

Well, here are some items. From the 90th Graf Klenau auction, 23 March 1974.

Remember:

1- This is an auction. These are estimated starting prices. I have mislaid the "prices realised" sheet.

2- The prioces are in DM (remember them), 1974 DM.

3- The authenticity of some items is dubious. Possible to get here (only), mounted in a group, the famous super-rare Klenau-special fantasy Kutuzov 3rd class on pentagonal suspension. (Item 3813.)

Famous, I have never heard of that before does any one have a pic

Order of Victory

[Christian Zulus]

Well, here are some items. From the 90th Graf Klenau auction, 23 March 1974.

Remember:

1- This is an auction. These are estimated starting prices. I have mislaid the "prices realised" sheet.

2- The prioces are in DM (remember them), 1974 DM.

3- The authenticity of some items is dubious. Possible to get here (only), mounted in a group, the famous super-rare Klenau-special fantasy Kutuzov 3rd class on pentagonal suspension. (Item 3813.)

Dear Ed,

many thanks for the list .

The DM ("Deutsche Mark") is rather exactly 50 % of the recent EURO. So, if you divide the Graf-Klenau-prices through 2 and take the result x 1.3, then you have the prices in USD at the recent USD/EUR-exchange-rate.

Even for mere starting prices, it seems to me far too "moderate" concerning the higher rating awards for the 1970s. Might be, that all the higher end items of Graf Klenau had been well made copies - did the forgers start so early ?

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

And some more common, fixed-price, stuff. From the September 1970 Spink Numismatic Circular.

Remember: These are 1970 ?s. The ?8 for the Liberation of Warsaw (#10825) compares to items in the same list:

-- A GV MM to 29th Canadian Infantry

-- A Sutlej for Aliwal (OK, it was ?8/10/-)

-- An IGS 54 "Persia"

-- A China 1857 "Taku Forts" and "Pekin"

Also remember that, taking into account inflation and all, ?8 in 1970 is now about ?149.38 (2005 figures, based on average earnings -- there are MANY ways to play this game -- see http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ukcompare/ for more details).

[Christian Zulus]

And some more common, fixed-price, stuff. From the September 1970 Spink Numismatic Circular.

Remember: These are 1970 ?s. The ?8 for the Liberation of Warsaw (#10825) compares to items in the same list:

-- A GV MM to 29th Canadian Infantry

-- A Sutlej for Aliwal (OK, it was ?8/10/-)

-- An IGS 54 "Persia"

-- A China 1857 "Taku Forts" and "Pekin"

Also remember that, taking into account inflation and all, ?8 in 1970 is now about ?149.38 (2005 figures, based on average earnings -- there are MANY ways to play this game -- see http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ukcompare/ for more details).

Dear Ed,

that lists corresponds more to the rather high price range for rather common CCCP-medals of the 1970s.

I remember from my first visits to England, that the British Pound had an enormous purchasing power at that time .

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

Dear Ed,

many thanks for the list .

The DM ("Deutsche Mark") is rather exactly 50 % of the recent EURO. So, if you divide the Graf-Klenau-prices through 2 and take the result x 1.3, then you have the prices in USD at the recent USD/EUR-exchange-rate.

Even for mere starting prices, it seems to me far too "moderate" concerning the higher rating awards for the 1970s. Might be, that all the higher end items of Graf Klenau had been well made copies - did the forgers start so early ?

Best regards

Christian

True, true, Christian. My thoughts too.

BUT, the DM 3000 starting price (the Lenin) can be compared to the starting prices in the same auction for:

-- Baden, Z Lion, grand cross set - DM 3200

-- Bavaria, House Order of St. H, grand cross breast star - DM 2500

-- Bavaria, Military M-J Order, grand cross breast star - DM 2500

-- Hesse-Darmstadt, Ludwig Order, collar - DM 3000

-- Austria, Golden Fleece, chain and badge - DM 4000

A better context?

Edited February 2, 2007 by Ed_Haynes