EK 1914 1914 Combatant Iron Cross awarded to Women

[Naxos]

The nurses Elfriede Scherhaus and Frieda Gessert, assigned to an Infanterie Regiment fighting on the Eastern Front, have received for their courage the iron cross second class on the black/white ribbon in November 1914.




from: Die Ritter des eisernen Kreuzes; page 54




Regards, Hardy

Edited January 7, 2013 by Nick

[Naxos]

A total of four women were awarded the Iron Cross during WWI:

Frieda Gessert, Elfriede Scherhaus, geb. Buchholz, Sophie Gr?fin zu T?rring-Jetterbach und Lonny Hertha von Versen.

There was one American born woman that was awarded the Iron Cross second class in 1870. Her name was

Agnes Leclerq Joy (*1840 in Franklin, Vermont, USA; +1912 in Karlsruhe).

Agnes was a distant relative to Abraham Lincoln (and probably Rick L Research)

Hardy

Edited March 21, 2008 by Naxos

[joe campbell]

so THIS is where rick gets his insatiable urge to help!!!!.....

thanks for the picture and info regarding female recipients.

remember also the Ehrenkreuz fur frauen und jungfrauen.

joe

[Dave Danner]

Something to add to an older thread:

[saschaw]

Nice old thread!

Just one question: Would not all ladied that got the EK2 in WW1 have gotten it on "combattant" ribbon, as they probably all were near the front, far away from home?

[Paul R]

Since they were front line nurses, I would bet that they all received the combattant ribbon for their EK2.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Nice old thread!

Just one question: Would not all ladied that got the EK2 in WW1 have gotten it on "combattant" ribbon, as they probably all were near the front, far away from home?

I have not seen one yet, but it may have been just as possible to get a white ribbon within the german borders for a woman.

I think the numbers would have been so minimal it is difficult to tell.

Best

Chris

[saschaw]

Chris, you're probably right. However I can hardly imagine a woman "at home" would have gotten the cross. There were some other awards, some especially and some also for woman, that were probably enough for the encouraged ladies at home.

[Paul R]

I would think that the homefront women who contributed to medical services would have most likely received the various grades of the DRK medal. What do you all think?

[Naxos]

Only four women are known to have been awarded the Iron Cross during WWI.

Frieda Gessert

Elfriede Scherhaus

Sophie Gräfin zu Toerring-Jettenbach

Lonny Hertha von Versen

all four received the Iron Cross second class on the combatant ribbon.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Does anyone know offhand how many women recieved the EK?

Thanks

Chris

[dond]

I'm guessing at least one..... :whistle:

[Chris Boonzaier]

Years ago, with no reflection... I posted that no women recieved the WW1 Iron Cross, Someone put me right on that... but I can no longer find the post.

Best

Chris

[marrauder]

I´ve found only:

4 females for EK2 1813 (Eleonore Prochaska, Sophie Krüger, Friederike Krüger and Johanna Stegen)

Around 40 for EK2 1939 (32 names are documented) http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=1706

2 for EK1 1939

Edited November 11, 2012 by marrauder

[Chris Boonzaier]

I worked with a girl who could have been her twin....

[Ulsterman]

Hmmmm...is it really an EK or mayhap a TWM? Hmmmmm...

Can anyone find the old "Women and the iron cross thread from @ 7 years ago? It ahd some pictures that Gordon adn Rick had uploaded of uber- rare awardeees, inlcuding a countess in riding boots, johdpurs and and polo helmet. I can not find it.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hmmmm...is it really an EK or mayhap a TWM? Hmmmmm...

Hi,

pic is black and white, but under the glass it looks 100% like EK ribbon.

Would the other one have been a buttonhole ribbon at all?

Best

Chris

[Ulsterman]

TWM ribbons were worn that way sometimes. Are you on Demir's TWM facebook (in turkish) page?

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

send me the link then :-)

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is a link...

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/45703-twms-for-women/page__hl__%2Bwomen+%2Biron+%2Bcross

As it is a studio photo with her in all her glory, i would maybe expect the TWM to be worn as well as the ribbon?

EKs and ribboned medals are often not on studio photos, but pinbacks were mostly a case of "wear em if you have em..."

Best

Chris

[Odulf]

According to this information, the Crosses were witdrawn.

"Später wurden allerdings diese Verleihungen rückgängig gemacht. Das Eiserne Kreuz sollte den Charakter der Auszeichnung von männlicher Tapferkeit angesichts des Feindes behalten."

http://hriesop.beepworld.de/militaer.htm

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have added Demir's pic next to mine, scroll back and see.

My thoughts....

We dont know how many nurses recieved the EK.

In Demirs photos, the woman has two Turkish medals... why not an Iron Cross? And if she was posing ... why wear the pinback award AND a ribbon? In my photo, (Studio) why NOT wear the pinback, but the ribbon?

I dont buy it being a TWM ribbon in the buttonhole, if it was a man in the photo we would not even think of the possibility that it was a TWM.

I am betting that both are one of a larger number of nurses (Enough so the kaiser noticed!) who got the EK, then had it taken away....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is an example of what I mean... with the women, we automatically think "turkish ribbon" because EKs to women are so rare... If this guy just had the ribbon, would we think the same?

[demir]

Does anyone know offhand how many women recieved the EK?

Thanks

Chris

I suspect the nurse with the TWM is the nurse whom NAXOS posted (a photo of her) in his thread (Elfriede Scherhaus). The photo resembles her very much. I can not say anything more after what I said above . . IMHO if the nurse was so strict applying the rules (wearing the TWM just the right place and also had the ribbon exactly where it belongs) then the ribbon most probably has been the EKII ribbon.

Regards

Demir

Edited December 14, 2012 by demir

[Leutwein]

I'm sorry but any speculations are out of place for me! What counts for me are facts .....

Point 1:

Quote: "ECs and ribboned medals are often not on studio photos, but pinbacks were mostly a case of "wear em if you have em ...""

I have many photos which prove the opposite. In particular, the EK was worn almost always. And therefore it is seen in photographs (almost) always.

Point 2:

So far, only 4 women are known, which have received the Iron Cross and 2 of them have carried it. This at least shows that the women have worn with pride the Iron Cross.

Furthermore comes on top following completion rate, which must be considered.

Quote: "After the withdrawal, the women were allowed to keep the medal, had to return the tapes, however, the crosses were allowed to wear them in focus as jewelry brooch."

(source: http://hriesop.beepworld.de/militaer.htm)

This in turn proves more that the women were proud of their lent EK and wanted to show this. Why else the permission to wear the cross as jewelry brooch .....

I conclude on the basis of the 2 secured original photos that women have worn their Iron Cross with pride and not just the ribbon.
Perhaps to highlight from the other mass ceremonies (Massenverleihungen! Don´t know the english word) like the Red Cross medal.

Furthermore, the question arises as to why those women (Sophie Gräfin zu Toerring-Jettenbach and Lonny Hertha von Versen) wear no further awards ....
I could imagine that they might have received one or the other Red Cross award.

Yet it is disconcerting that 2 secured original photos show the EK and 2 speculative objects doesn`t show it but could also show winners of the Iron Cross. Makes no sense for me first!

point 3

Why is only the talk of the EK and TWM?
What about, for example, the Red Cross Medal?

The ribbon of the Red Cross Medal may also resemble a ribbon of the EK!

point 4

Once we leave the position in mind. What would be at issue here? General Decoration or Military Decoration 2nd Class on the non-combattant's ribbon (with only 64 awards)? Theoretically, you could even consider both , especially if this medal would be at the first and not at the second position. (In this case definitely the AEZ!)

What I want to say ....

In such cases, can only help the name or the piece comes from a closed but secure estate. Everything else is just pure speculation.

Best wishes

Karsten