My newest bars...

[saschaw]

Gentlemen, I think it's time now to show my newest "bar acquisitions". It's not common, but I'm stumped with some ribbons - pleeeeease help meeeee...

 

 

The first one is presumably a Prussian's war time six place bar. Ribbon one is a 1914 EK II, but the 2nd ribbon is the non combattant ribbon - not for an EK, but I cannot see Colonial service for a MEZ, KO or RAO and the Krieger-Verdienstmedaille was awarded to non-Prussian soldiers only, but this guy was a Prussian for sure, I think. Last ribbon is Lübeck hanseatencross or Ottoman "saniya madalyasi"? I don't know, have them seen sewn like this and that, by tailors that didn't know - Lübeck should be the other way round, right? I neither know what the "RAO" and the blue ribbons are most likely for...

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

First one was almost "pure Prussian", so now to follow the 2nd bar, an almost "international-German" and very colourfull bar. I think this is as well war time or early 20s from the needle system. No way to tell what Schwarzburg award but I'm on a cross, from which principality it may be.

 

The awards are:

- Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 1914 II. Klasse;

- Schwarzburg-X, Fürstliches Ehrenkreuz IV. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Militärverdienstkreuz 1914 II. Klasse;

- Oldenburg, Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse;

- Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Friedrich Franz-Kreuz;

- Bremen, Hanseatenkreuz.

 

What kind of person might have had such a combination and am I right about all award as far? Thanks.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

Now a five place bar, similar "international" to the second one. Once more war time I think, and from the needle system made by Godet - riiight?

The combination of war time awards, amung these the SEHO 3aX suggests a higher ranking officer, leaving out his pre war awards? Tell me if you think I'm wrong...

 

In details, it's

- Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 1914 II. Klasse;

- Hessen, Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen wohl "Für Tapferkeit";

- Anhalt, Friedrich-Kreuz;

- Sächsische Herzogtümer, Ernestinischer Hausorden, Ritterkreuz I. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Braunschweig, Kriegsverdienstkreuz II. Klasse.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

Yes, I still showed nothing from Baden - though, nice bars, but... where are the really nice baden bars...

 

 

This one is a "Frackspange" with Iron Cross on non combattant ribbon, even rarer than the one place "Ordensspange". The needle looks again like a Godet - do you think the same? Or was that used by someone else, too? It's from eBay but though a good one, not from "cetra2003", "am-militaria" or "raritaetensamlerclub". Those persons flooded the market with bars like that and still sell them for insane prices... well, I paid an insane price too, but how often do you see them in this quality and - presumably - by Godet...?

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

I shalt stopp now posting, shall I not... ?

 

I have to admit I was very, very lucky finding all these as I think none is common and they're all good. To add, not only good but as well early bars from war time or shortly after - I do prefer those to 1920s or 30s bars.

 

The last one for now but I hope to be prepared for such a thread in some months again. Prussian/Baden/Ottoman combo with dark blue backing and ribbons in "Austrian" style, the bar mounted "upside down" what you can see on the needle. Navy? Possibly. Do I know what the awards are? I don't know. What rank and what awards might match this bar, and what time might it be from? War time again?

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[Paul R]

Very beautiful Additions. I love your NC EK2!

[Deruelle]

Very nice ribbon bars. But I see you have got one ribbon bar with Ernestine ribbon ? Usually this bar should be in my collection

Christophe

[ccj]

Very nice ribbon bars. But I see you have got one ribbon bar with Ernestine ribbon ? Usually this bar should be in my collection

Christophe

I was just complaining to someone how I've seen no nice ribbon bars to sale lately. Well, at least someone is finding them.

[Guest Rick Research]

Welcome to the Pacing The Floor At 3 A.M. Club. You now have enough maddening ribbon bars for the next 10 years!

That Schwarzburg-double Mecklenburgs is a REAL

The combatant/noncombatant I think perhaps Daniel may have the answer to with his Prussian Orders On The "EK" Ribbon work.... maybe this winter or next year? I'm not sure of his publishing schedule, he works on so much all at the same time.

About all I can ell you is that the bar with the EH3aX belonged to a CAPTAIN. That's who got that grade of award. PROBABLY a General Staff or higher headquarters officer.

But you should send them all to me for, uh, advanced scientific testing. Yes, yes, advanced scientific testing. Just to be sure.

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Sascha,

what the hell are You playing with ribbon bars???????????????????????????

Hurry up and send them to MEEEEEE!!

The Schwarzburg one has ID potential.

The Prussian with the white-black ribbon is absolutely common. 10 awards in that class in WW1 are everything else but nothing rare. With the right tools and rolls and ranklists it costs 10 minutes to tell the name.

Best regards

Daniel

[Scott Powell]

great bars!

[saschaw]

Thanks Gentlemen for all the nice feedback. I wasn't afraid you wouldn't like one of them, but confirmation's always better.

Christophe - if you have nice Baden bars, you might give it a try and contact me.

ccj - I'm often complainig, too - but now without any reason.

Rick - Daniel had the answer, yet! The second ribbon is a KO3 without(!) swords on white and black ribbon. I'm sorry I have to disagree with Daniel in a point: this is rather uncommon...

Daniel - thanks again.

And at all - if there's any more information to add, especially on the last bar, please don't hesitate.

[Stogieman]

Hi Saschaw, it's always nice to see someone is still finding real bars! Thanks for sharing these with us!

[seeheld]

Hello Sascha,

I have a Problem with your "Mecklenburg-Fieldbar". At first, why do you believe that Schwarzburg arward is the Ehrenkreuz IV. Klasse with swords and not the Kriegsverdienstmedaille or the Ehrenkreuz III. Klasse with swords? and at second, all decorations are for combatants exept the Friedrich-Franz-Cross? The FFC was only for workers and gouvernment official (non-combatants) at home from Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Only a very small number of foreign people are arwarded.

But nothing is impossible and I try to find out the ID.

Best regards

Frank alias Seeheld

[seeheld]

Hello Sascha,

in my rolls I found out one very hot candidate and some other maybe candidates:

Haffner, Erik --Schwerin, Gro?herzoglicher Hofschauspieler, Leutnant der Reserve im Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.76 (I.-III. Bataillon)

FFK 16.12.1917, MVK 2.Kl. Feb.1915

The Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.76 is one of the Hanseatic Regiments. I believe that's the reason for the Bremer Hanseatenkreuz and the Oldenburger KVK!

Hoeschel, Otto Max --Hamburg, Diplom Berg-Ingenieur, zur Zeit K?niglich Preu?ischer Leutnant der Landwehr

FFK 29.12.1917, MVK 2.Kl. unknown date

Lammerts, Heinrich --Wismar, Montage-Schmied in der Wagenbau-Aktiengesellschaft

FFK 09.03.1918, MVK 2.Kl. unknown date

Weichmann, Dr. jur., Karl Dietrich Heinrich Martin --Berlin, Direktor der Landbank

FFK 02.11.1917, MVK 2.Kl. unknown date

Best regards

Seeheld

Edited May 15, 2008 by seeheld

[saschaw]

Thanks Frank, that Haffner sounds good, very good - a "heavily overdecorated" Lt. d.R.

 

 

seeheld said:

At first, why do you believe that Schwarzburg arward is the Ehrenkreuz IV. Klasse with swords and not the Kriegsverdienstmedaille or the Ehrenkreuz III. Klasse with swords?

Sorry, that was just a guess by the other things and what rank it might have been. Could be other classes, sure. Thanks that far. The Bremen roll is undone and undoable from what I know, but how about Schwarzburg as confirmation?!

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[Guest Rick Research]

Bremen would be VERY NICELY do-able by somebody on your side of the ocean who does not have to deal with Customs apes slashing open boxes and throwing the hundreds of xeroxed pages away.

[Dave Danner]

Hello Sascha,

in my rolls I found out one very hot candidate and some other maybe candidates:

...

Hoeschel, Otto Max --Hamburg, Diplom Berg-Ingenieur, zur Zeit K?niglich Preu?ischer Leutnant der Landwehr

FFK 29.12.1917, MVK 2.Kl. unknown date

...

Best regards

Seeheld

Lt. d.L. Otto Hoeschel of Landwehr-Fu?artillerie-Regiment Nr. 9 received the Honor Cross 3rd Class with Swords from Schwarzburg-Sondershausen on 26 August 1915

[saschaw]

Dave, now this makes it his rather sure, let's say 99,5%? Guys, you're great - two out of four identified...

Regarding the KO3 white/black bar: comes a KorvKpt z.D. Hellmuth v. Müller-Berneck up in the Lübeck roll that far? That's the name Daniel found for it...

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

I got one more today in Illingen at the "Sammlerb?rse". There were many nice ribbon bars, but prices have seem to gotten up insanely. At least there wasn't much Baden stuff so I wasn't too dismissing many bars...

 

 

Nothing special and no chance to identify the wearer, but I'm interrested in what you think the awards are rather: EK II and WWI Baden merit medal or MEZ2 and Baden merit medal for SWA action? Both's possible and with apparently much time in service to get the Prussian 1897 and the Baden 1902 medal he should at least have been old enough to "fight" the Hereros.

 

By the way, this bar was laying around at an elderly collector and trader from Baden I know for almost all time I can think, have been sitting in his office when I was still a little boy. Well, he has usually heavy prices so noone asks for his things - this was priced at 35,- Euro which I found rather reasonable and bought it for 30,- Euro.

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[Noor]

Oh, I just wish that here in Dublin is ribbon bars on sale with this price level!!!!!!!!!!!

It is great great bar!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 18, 2008 by Noor

[saschaw]

Gentlemen, any more thoughts or opinions, especially on the overlapping bar and the last one, my first and only Baden-SWA connection? Honestly, I thought to have something like this yet, but actually, I had none...

I've got one more new bar (well, they still come up, it's strange). I think I'll scan and show it tomorrow. Rick, I think we've never seen that backing colour before an a Godet ribbon bar...

[saschaw]

saschaw said:

I've got one more new bar (well, they still come up, it's strange). I think I'll scan and show it tomorrow. Rick, I think we've never seen that backing colour before an a Godet ribbon bar...

Honestly, I've NEVER seen a 1920s Godet bar with NSDAP brown backing - did you...?! The bar predates 1936/1934 and might be well from pre "Machtergreifung" (1933) times. From what I know in these days not only SA etc. wore brown uniforms but SS did as well, so it might be from any party organization if it is from an organization at all - might be just a party guy's to be worn on the "party uniform"...

 

 

I has a rather nice combination of Red Cross and Freikorps awards:

- Bayern, Verdienstkreuz für freiwillige Krankenpflege mit Spange "1914" (one pin missing);

- Bayern, Jubiläumsmedaille für die bayrische Armee;

- Bayern, Militär-Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse o.ä.;

- Preußen, Rote Kreuz-Medaille III. Klasse;

- Bayern, Kriegs-Erinnerungszeichen des Bayrischen Landesvereins für Feld- und Etappendienst;

- Dt. Reich, Ehrendenkmünze des Weltkriegs der Dt. Ehrenlegion e.V. ;

- Dt. Reich, Ehrendenkmünze des Kyffhäuserbundes mit Frontkämpferabzeichen;

- Bayern, Landesverein vom Roten Kreuz, Dienstauszeichnung 20 Jahre;

- Baltischer Nationalausschuss, Baltenkreuz am Band;

- Freikorps, Medaille des Soldaten-Siedlungsverbandes Kurland.

 

I hope you like the bar and that it isn't my last good bar to show...

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by saschaw

[Guest Rick Research]

Very interesting. he must have asked for that color, but why?

[saschaw]

Very interesting. he must have asked for that color, but why?

Nice you like it.

Well, why shouldn't he have asked? I'm pretty sure he was SA, SS or something similar, and it was "usus" in earlier days to have a uniform matching backing, so he wanted a brown one as many navy bars had a dark blue. Nothing really important, but for him it might have been, who knows...