Why Third Reich ?

[Guest Atilla Jones]

Gentlemen, A simple question, why does anyone continue to collect Third Reich badges, medals, insignia etc. From the fifty's crude lead castings the fakers have slowly improved & aided by modern technology they are near perfect, in fact the ones you can't spot actually are perfect. Like the perfect murder ! I stopped when I saw the 'New generation' repros a while back, the pilot's badges that change hands for ?50 plus, they still give the unscrupulous dealer a good profit.

Why do you continue to lay yourself open to being ripped off big time ?

[John]

I am not a fan of Third Reich medals etc. I think that you need to have so much knowledge just to enjoy one type of medal/badge. I certainly don't touch it without an expert on hand for what I was intersted in buying.And the fact that they come unnamed makes them uninteresting to me. jumping

[Guest Atilla Jones]

And a lot of the 'Experts' are getting taken to the cleaners on a regular basis, seen it happen before my very eyes, and they actually shook hands when the deed was done !"

[Jim Baker]

It's an addiction. If you research well, and stick to what you know, you should be OK. I like the EK's and know enough to just be dangerous. I have learned not to be impulsive. If something feels wrong, it probably is.

[Laurence Strong]

I would have to agree with Jim. Highly addictive , and hard on the pocket book

Edited March 31, 2005 by Laurence Strong

[Gordon Williamson]

I don't think its necessarily any more dangerous than other areas of collecting. There are fake , ( or re-named) British medals that would fool the unwary, and no shortage of re-strikes of the rarer British Regimental Cap Badges.

If you specialise and really study your subject, I don't think German stuff is so much more risky than any other, but you really do have to specialise.

[Dave B]

Knowledge is power!

I would have to agree with Jim and Gordon,its all in the research and study......I wish the stuff wasn't so expensive though!

Dave

[Nick]

I wish the stuff wasn't so expensive though!

Dave

Here ! Here !

Prices just seem to go up and up, thats one reason I have turned to collecting tinnies.

[Jim Baker]

Dave

Here ! Here !

Prices just seem to go up and up, thats one reason I have turned to collecting tinnies.

←

Nick,

Does that mean you want to get rid of that cased EKII??? I can trade you a few tinnies for it!

[Greg Kubasek]

It's just an addictive hobby. Sure there are fakes out there, but there is if you collect sports cards, or beanie babies or whatever. Just don't buy if you don;t know what you are looking at.

There is a thrill to collecting TR, I like having something that is a little more difficult to find and perhaps a little more valuable. We can all walk down to out local army surplus and pick up a piece of American or British or Canadian militaria, but what is the fun in that?

[Nick]

Does that mean you want to get rid of that cased EKII???  I can trade you a few tinnies for it! 

No not just yet

[Paul R]

I think that what keeps me coming back the TR items is the fact that here are so many variations.

My my case, with the Luftwaffe tabs and uniforms, there are many different waffenfarben and variations to find. Also, they are rare enough to be a challange yet at the same time not impossible to find them all.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I must admit the fakes were a reason that I moved on, but another reason was looking at some photos of the cities in 1940-41.... they looked very much like the cities of today... for some strange reason I thought... its not quite "history" yet.

In Imperial times with the funny moustaches, it seemed to be old enough to be "interesting". WW2 was recent past.

I dunno, its a reason that is difficult to explain, but I saw local men with the same comb over, dandruff and probably 'rhoids as I saw in the 1940s party, SA and SS photos... and I thought... "this is not exotic, old or history..."

Anyway, its a highly subjective view, so most collectors would just shake their head when I voice it, but each to his own....

[Avitas]

Hello there,

I collect TR and Canadian ww2 almost exclusively, and what I do is just stick to the cheaper stuff so that way even if I make a mistake and get burned without being able to get a refund (you have all saw that happen to me with my first ever purchases, the TR badges, OUCH!). I too like the tinnies for their affordability, but now some sites are charging obscene amounts for common tinnies! So I will continue to collect TR mainly for the sheer history of it, and they compliment my Canadian items nicely to have a balance. Also, admittedly, the imagination does tend to go off with these unnamed Third Reich awards, as you wonder who actually had this specific medal or badge and what they did to get it. As for paying over $100 for an item, I just don't do it (except for VERY rare exceptions like my Aux. Cruiser badge) and I feel safer that way. It means I won't get a Knight's Cross unless I find it at a flea market from some unuspecting merchant who doesn;t know it's value (not very likely), but I am happy with the Coastal Artillery badges and chest eagles and such.

Cheers,

Pat

[hankmeister]

He's right...I guess I'll move into Civil War, or Indian artifacts, where there's no fakes. Maybe collect Luis Vuitton bags, or Chanel stuff, there's no fakes there either. I could smoke fine Cuban cigars, cuz I wouldn't have to worry about getting a fake one of those either. Wait! How about 1813 & 1870 Iron Crosses! Now there's a field where I don't have to worry about getting burned.

Some people....

[Stijn David]

Hello,

A good question where multiple answers could be given, no all mighty answer for sure but as the Prussians did have the motto "Suum Cuique" !!

Well for me a good consideration is that it is still possible (altough it is ending fast) to speak with the soldiers who where in that very war. As a example i do give with pleasure the following picture.

The picture was a very first time published in my recent booklet "Verleihungsurkunden .... Cholsmchild", it is written in german as in order to give the veterans that did co-operate a understandable piece of what we can rediscover. The picture does show a bunch of "Luftlande" soldiers and before publication only 1 soldier was known towards me, namely the middle one as he did had this one in his Photoalbum.

The publication was launched and within 1 month i did receive the names from both the left and the right soldier. In otehr words, they are now identifyed with name and also what happened with them is known now;

left soldier : Uffz. Ottmar Fischer (he was KIA in a flying accident at Riga - 1943)

right soldier : Uffz. Helmuth D?hne (he was KIA while acting in a Jagdgeschader in 1945)

Without the publishing of this picture these would have been annonymous German luftwaffe soldiers, now these soldiers have their name back and their face is known towards me and you.

Thats what is fascinating me so much, we can still find persons who did particpate and tell about it, so it has a historical value for me.

Cordial greetings,

[WW2PO]

Could this fascination be related to their fanticism of the past? OR the unimormed complusion to part with their hard earned money?

Edited January 13, 2007 by WW2PO

[Edgar Estrada]

I must admit the fakes were a reason that I moved on, but another reason was looking at some photos of the cities in 1940-41.... they looked very much like the cities of today... for some strange reason I thought... its not quite "history" yet.

In Imperial times with the funny moustaches, it seemed to be old enough to be "interesting". WW2 was recent past.

I dunno, its a reason that is difficult to explain, but I saw local men with the same comb over, dandruff and probably 'rhoids as I saw in the 1940s party, SA and SS photos... and I thought... "this is not exotic, old or history..."

Anyway, its a highly subjective view, so most collectors would just shake their head when I voice it, but each to his own....

Hello Chris

I see you are interested in WWI. I am interested in the German Navies and I like more the Imperial Dagger, Imperial Navy Wound Badge and Imperial U-boot Badge than the ones from the KM, but I do not know more badges from the Imperial Navy (WWI). Could you tell me which badges the Imperial Navy had?

Thanks

Edgar

[hankmeister]

Could this fascination be related to their fanticism of the past? OR the unimormed complusion to part with their hard earned money?

Just out of curiousity, what's "fanticism"? I checked it on Webster.com, and it's not in their dictionary....

And while we're at it, what's "unimormed"??? Or "complusion"?

WW2PO, if you're going to make fun of people's hobby, I'm going to call you out on your less than exemplary use of English (maybe you're foreign) or typing skills (maybe you're lazy).

best

Hank

Edited January 23, 2007 by hankmeister

[Ralph A]

It's the "downed dragon" syndrome. Remember the movie in which the boys (after waiting to make sure the dragon is dead) go out and start plucking off its scales and pulling its teeth and claws?

You don't go out and start yanking off the victorious knight's armor, do you? Well... maybe some of you do.... hence the Stolen Valor Act....

[Deruelle]

Hi,

I never collect TR medals or item. When I was young I found in my parent's home some german medals, gun, one uniforms etc. I've never been fascinated by these items. When my father died, my mother gave them to one of my father's friend who collect TR items. I've got, for now, no regret. I see with the time, by reading sales catalog, auction catalog, an important part of fakes So why still collect these items ? May be it's like a drug. We can't explain for each man.

I collect only Imperial items, because in my garden I have found some germans bullit, some bones (yes when I was years old). I want to know more about my town and the war. That's why I collect only Imperial items.

At the end of my masters of history, I found one paper of my grand-father. He fought against the german soldiers in the french Resistance during the WW2. The explanation of all the items I found when I was young became clear. If only I knew that those items belonged to my grand-father. That's life. No regret, that's the most important.

Regards

Christophe

[EuRob]

I am a little puzzled??

I have been collecting for roughly a year now both imperial and TR. I do believe that all that I have is original and have mostly researched my purchases, I didnt at the beginning I admit and I got stung a couple of times!!

I took advice of members from this site and am better equiped to research the "one" I want.

I have come across the same words as was said by the starter of this post ....TR items are fake why do people still collect?

Whilst I know that there are a lot of fakes around I do believe that there are also good pieces out there. Also its thanks to sites like this and return policies of dealers and sellers that make TR collecting a bit more "peace of mind-ish"

Whilst I am on this topic I also believe that if TR was so risky then surely so is collecting Imperial, British etc as some of these pieces fetch a fair sum and lets face it the forgers are doing it purely for profit. It would be logical to assume that most areas of collecting are (fun but) risky. Research and plenty of advice and opinions helps avoid the disappointment of parting with your hard earned cash for a bit of junk, and maybe still you may get hit!! But if you can return?

Thats the rub!

Rob

[PKeating]

People usually gravitate towards the material and effects of beaten armies. I collect certain German combat and qualification badges but my main focus is on document groups and photography. The common denominator linking my Third Reich memorabilia is that they are mainly items that were worn or carried by soldiers on campaign. Photos and albums are a bonus as they sometimes show us where these items were carried, through the soldier's eyes. These criteria extend to certain US and British badges and awards but tend to limit me to CIBs, parachutists' badges and things like that. However, nothing beats tracing a man's military history via the entries in his soldbuch and wehrpa?, entries made in many of the places where he fought or through which he passed and sometimes signed by notable people.

As far as fakery goes, one has to be careful with documents and even with photographs these days, as some of the improved or contrived groups emerging recently from Germany have shown us. I have seen some very intelligent attempts - including several SS-Fallschirmj?ger groups and a complete soldbuch - involving crafty penmanship, laser and inkjet printing, blank but original documents and skilled use of Photoshop. Third Reich material has been faked since the end of hostilities. However, if anyone imagines that British and American stuff is safer than Nazi stuff, they are sucumbing to naivity. Everything is faked: German, British, American, Japanese, Soviet and even French Resistance. To become a serious collector is perhaps harder than it used to be, because the serious money involved attracts some serious criminals as opposed to the garden shed artisans of yesteryear, but it is not impossible.

These forums have made it a bit easier for newbies. Mind you, I learn something new every time I surf the forums. However, all forums are vulnerable to abuse by dishonest people seeking to promote fakes or "newly identified variants" as wartime originals, especially when the webmasters and managers are in cahoots with fakers, bent dealers and their shills. This is not a problem affecting GMIC and some of the newer, more specialised websites, like the British Medals Forum, but it does sadly affect other places. For all that, though, it is worth persevering if you are interested in Third Reich material because you can avoid the pitfalls. The best thing to do is to concentrate on a specialised area, study it as much as you can, seek out serious collectors - who generally like helping serious newcomers...because these are the people to whom we will sell all our stuff when we need to finance our old age! - and exercise care when buying.

Two maxims:

Quality trumps quantity.

Sometimes you must pay tomorrow's prices in order to have something wonderful today.

PK

Edited February 23, 2007 by PKeating

[Stan]

I started collecting TR over 40 years ago. I had started collecting British Cap Badges but became interested when I was given a German Police Cap Badge and an Iron Cross. Over the years I've had plenty of fakes which I have got rid of and I suppose the fact that there are good fakes out there makes us research the pieces we buy even more carefully. It has certainly made me learn to speak and read German because I subscribe to 3 German magazines on medals and awards and have every "INFO" magazine from issue 1.

As Rob says, clever fakes are around in almost every collecting field. I have a friend in Germany who used to collect lead model cowboys and indians but has stopped because of the fakes from Eastern Europe.

Stan

[Belaruski]

Perhaps then some of the 'buzz' of collecting TR stuff comes from the knowledge that you actually have beat the fakers?

Knowing 100% that you have original items is taken for granted elsewhere, and perhaps that's where people are being naive..