Mongolia Sukhbaatar Order

[Ed_Haynes]

Badge #2 went, presumably, to Choibalsan.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Christophe]

No one else to try finding what's the "mystery" behind Ed's Sukhbaatar badges ?

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, remarkable silence. Shall await more interest to divulge the secret.

[Vatjan]

So, I would guess the "a" badge is a prototype...

Cheers.

Ch.

I would go with the prototype hypothesis or it may be our worst fear come true a remarkably good fake.

Hey Ed, is this a quizzz thingy where he who gets the right answer, wins the order in question

"The plot thickens dear Watson "

Jan

[Christophe]

(...) Hey Ed, is this a quizzz thingy where he who gets the right answer, wins the order in question

"The plot thickens dear Watson "

Jan

I'm in favor of this. Ed ?

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

Right . . . . The "prize" -- a high quality SCAN?

Christophe hit the right word: Prototype.

Provenance solid.

[Ed_Haynes]

Now, pick the differences?

[Vatjan]

WOOOOOOOOWWWWW

That is one nice piece, Ed. With solid provenance to boot.

Makes one dream of prototypes of the other orders as well.

Now for the differences, let me see, hmmm

- no fold on the front of the hat

- a more well-fed SB

- thicker rounded enamel on the rays

- texture on the rays of the gold star

- slightly different letters in SB name

That's a good start I would think

Jan

Edited April 23, 2007 by Vatjan

[fjcp]

- thicker rounded enamel on the rays

don't forget the slightly lighter colour!!!

JC

Great piece Ed!!!!!!!!!!!

[new world]

SB with SN 114, from a collection in Russia.

[new world]

Document for SB #114.

Awarded to a Russian non-military person on Dec 29, 1955.

[Bob]

Document for SB #114.

Awarded to a Russian non-military person on Dec 29, 1955.

Would you be willing to share the name of the person? Any more details know about the background of this awarding?

[new world]

Sorry, as I said - the group is in Russia and the owner did not disclose the name of the recepient.

William

[Stogieman]

Ed the prototype is pretty special....

William! Nice booklet your friend has shared!

[Megan]

[Ferdinand]

When was the Order of Sukhbaatar instituted? 1945 or 1941? According to Dietrich Herfurth, Yuri Yashnev's site and Megan's site it was 16 May 1941, but according to Ed's classification on page 3 of this topic it is 1945.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Ferdinand

[Ed_Haynes]

Battushig (p. 23) says ". . . the presidium of the State Lower Assembly decided to create a new supreme state order -- the Order of Sukhbaatar on September 27th 1945." Much as I may respect those other authorities, I take his word for it until someone does more real research. I suspect that 1941 date is from Herfurth, who says many things that cannot be supported.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Ferdinand]

I also tend to believe Battushig is right.

If we take a look at the following topic, we can see that Choibalsan wears both his Hero Star and Sukhbaatar as of 1945. All the pre-1945 pictures only show his Hero Star.

- Choibalsan award chronology in pictures

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, there is always a problem where someone who has not done the research (and even lacks the basic skills to do that research) says something, it gets quoted, that quote gets requoted (always without attribution, by the way), and the poison of ignorance and misinformation spreads and spreads.

If someone (who could read them) had just looked at the records . . . !!

When the award rolls become available, many things will be clarified, many "experts" repudiated.

[Megan]

Then I think I'd better scamper off & change my dates... Got it from Yuri Yashnev's site, if you are interested in the source of my info. Not sure what his authority was!

[Ed_Haynes]

Then I think I'd better scamper off & change my dates... Got it from Yuri Yashnev's site, if you are interested in the source of my info. Not sure what his authority was!

My guess is that Yuri lifted from Herfurth or from the Russian translation (and that I think was Herfurth's source too?) of Ц. Tэрбиш, Бнмaу-ын одон, мeдaлЬ aлдaр цол туунийг aнх хуртэгчигд (Ulanbaatar: 1977). Bat used this too, but found it very flawed and needed to consult the records.

This is certainly the place where Herfurth lifts many of his images.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Megan]

Fascinating. I've just amended my entry to reflect your more accurate information, thank you (yet again!) Ed.

[Bob]

Had a look at my SB's today... there's also a distinct difference between Screwback and Pinback... have a close look at SB's head and the "bulge" on his cheak. Clear way to identify a pin/screwback from the front.

[Colinf]

And type 2 :

No. 585 is for sale here http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=218936

$1695 I believe.

Ed can you empty your PM box, I sent you a PM but it does not appear to be reaching you?

Regards,

Colin

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks for mentioning that, I'd been told about it. Actually I think it is ?1695. From what I have been told, a better scan of the serial number would be nice. Sukhbaatar fakes are now being reported, so some care is needed.

Have cleaned PM, have fallen behind on almost everything during final exams, sorry.