Franz-Joseph-Orden extreme price

[Utgardloki]

I found this Franz Joseph Kleindekoration at Weitze, the price is 48850€

Is it really that rear. In the description they say they have it on offer for the first time since 30 years

[1812 Overture]

I think they are drunk. . Marked the wrong price?

[laurentius]

Well, it's Weitze, so over-the-top prices should not surprise us. They are the European Emedals, or is Emedals the Canadian Weitze?

Kind regards, Laurentius

[Christian1962]

4.885,- would be too much.

Regards

Christian

 

[Utgardloki]

Thats what I thought, but I wouldn't consider myself an expert, so I still thought maybe its a super special fancy version, which is so rear it's worth the price...

[Christian1962]

In Haus-, Hof- und Staatshandbuch from 1914 we find:

157 Austrian owners of Großkreuz des Franz Joseph-Ordens 

and up to 600 - 700 foreign owners of that class (I became tired  counting).

Maybe 1.000 all in all. If only 10 % would have owend a "Kleine Dekoration" (it could be worn just on uniforms) it would not be a rare and elusive piece of collectors interest worth a realistic price more then 4.000,- €. This price only with the inscripiton " F.J.O. Großkreuz - Kleine Dekoration". Otherwise 1.500,- up to 2.000,- maximum.

Referring to the Weitze piece: "Kleine Dekoration" was introduced in 1908. When the case is dated with "1900" - would it be a 100 % original one? I would think that the inscription was imprinted later (golden letters are more shining then the "F.J.O." . 

Regards

 Christian

 

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by Christian1962

[1812 Overture]

17 hours ago, Christian1962 said:

In Haus-, Hof- und Staatshandbuch from 1914 we find:

157 Austrian owners of Großkreuz des Franz Joseph-Ordens 

and up to 600 - 700 foreign owners of that class (I became tired  counting).

Maybe 1.000 all in all. If only 10 % would have owend a "Kleine Dekoration" (it could be worn just on uniforms) it would not be a rare and elusive piece of collectors interest worth a realistic price more then 4.000,- €. This price only with the inscripiton " F.J.O. Großkreuz - Kleine Dekoration". Otherwise 1.500,- up to 2.000,- maximum.

Referring to the Weitze piece: "Kleine Dekoration" was introduced in 1908. When the case is dated with "1900" - would it be a 100 % original one? I would think that the inscription was imprinted later (golden letters are more shining then the "F.J.O." . 

Regards

 Christian

 

 

I have some screenshots of the prices of the auctions that have been saved before, will it be affected here? I don't know what your Europeans think. I have always been like this in China.

[laurentius]

Dear 1812 ouverture,

perhaps the prices in China are higher, but this comes (in my opinion) from the love chinese people have for monarchies. Austria-Hungary, the German monarchies and the English monarchy are vastly popular there. I have seen lots of photos (sadly) of Chinese 'collectors' who wear decorations from their collections (They act like Americans). The prices are a bit higher because they love the stuff. The monarchies are gone, but if you have a medal in your hand you still have some sort of relic of it.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[tifes]

Well, discrepancy between „1900“ on the bottom of the box and 1908 as a year of introduction of small decorations of grand crosses for four A-H orders (St. Stephan, Leopold, Iron Crown and Franz Joseph) might be explained by obligation of the family  to return original FJO knight cross with the box after decease of the awardee. Consequently box was “modified” by stamping small decoration inscription on the lid of the box. It looks OK for me, at least on the picture.

However, I would be much more careful concerning small decoration itself…

[Christian1962]

4 hours ago, tifes said:

Well, discrepancy between „1900“ on the bottom of the box and 1908 as a year of introduction of small decorations of grand crosses for four A-H orders (St. Stephan, Leopold, Iron Crown and Franz Joseph) might be explained by obligation of the family  to return original FJO knight cross with the box after decease of the awardee. Consequently box was “modified” by stamping small decoration inscription on the lid of the box. It looks OK for me, at least on the picture.

 

However, I would be much more careful concerning small decoration itself…

 

I would not think so because the owner of a lower grade had to return his earlier decoration when he received a higher one.

My humble opinion: the quality of the miniature star is quite poor (late or probably after war) if you compare it with others. So you are right "concerning small decoration itself"....

I can just enclose an EKO1 miniature star for comparison but you will recognize what I mean if you have a look onto the star corpus itself.

Regards

Christian 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Christian1962

[tifes]

8 hours ago, Christian1962 said:

I would not think so because the owner of a lower grade had to return his earlier decoration when he received a higher one. 

My humble opinion: the quality of the miniature star is quite poor (late or probably after war) if you compare it with others. So you are right "concerning small decoration itself"....

I can just enclose an EKO1 miniature star for comparison but you will recognize what I mean if you have a look onto the star corpus itself.

Regards

Christian 

 

I would not think so because the owner of a lower grade had to return his earlier decoration when he received a higher one.

 I meant it that way that somebody got knight cross of FJO in 1900 that person died and family returned his award in the box to Order´s Chancellery when it was embossed  for „small decoration“ and consequently re-used. Of course, I might be wrong but etui looks correct to me, at least on the picture.

 

Concerning small decoration I wanted to be more diplomatic, but it´s out so I can only support Christian´s opinion…it´s after-1918 production or collector´s copy. This particular FJO-GK small decoration could be made by two producers - Rothe or Mayers and this one is none of them. Rothe used perforated corpus as it can be seen by EKOI small decoration and Mayers had it full one without small holes in corpus but there were short, thick rays between tips of the stars on the avers. Of course, there might be issue, which we can’t exclude that the small decoration was privately made by some jewellery company. However, this would be terrible result while overall finish of the double-headed eagle and red enamels in the cross are shabby. All this points out that it´s after-1918 copy.

[GdC26]

I spoke to Helmut. It's a typo, price is € 4.850.

[Great Dane]

Well, he got his free 'air time'...

So what justifies a price of 4.850 Euros (I'm asking in all honesty)?

[Christian1962]

9 hours ago, Great Dane said:

Well, he got his free 'air time'...

So what justifies a price of 4.850 Euros (I'm asking in all honesty)?

I think the most valuable part would be the case at all. Gold marked FJO-Knights cost 700 - 800 €, the miniature star in poor quality 500 - 600 € (I would not pay that amount). So the difference makes the price of the case up to 3.000 - 3.400 €. I am not sure if anybody is willing to pay that for a case.

But: for a collector missing just this item it could be worth.  

Regards

Christian

[1812 Overture]

1 hour ago, Christian1962 said:

I think the most valuable part would be the case at all. Gold marked FJO-Knights cost 700 - 800 €, the miniature star in poor quality 500 - 600 € (I would not pay that amount). So the difference makes the price of the case up to 3.000 - 3.400 €. I am not sure if anybody is willing to pay that for a case.

But: for a collector missing just this item it could be worth.  

Regards

Christian

Boss: There are fewer and fewer fools who are willing to pay expensive fees, haha. . .

Maybe. . It’s time for him to see my power!

Seeing that friend, so persistent and want to buy, I said that my friends and I were shocked.

I have some screenshots of the auction here, but I don't know if I will send them here, will there be European shopkeepers sending killers to China to chase me, I am afraid

[Bayern]

Pfui Deiwel !

[tifes]

To 1812 Overture pics showing some small decorations:

FJO grand-cross – it´s late collector´s copy of small decoration. In my opinion not worth of money at all.

LO grand-cross or probably I. class/EKOI – those two are not small decorations but miniatures for ribbons on the field uniform bar. They are smaller in diameter but they seem to be original pieces. Price is always decision made by the buyer but at least it’s not some modern crap.   

 

Tifes   

[Elmar Lang]

About those "Kleindekorationen" of the Leopold, Iron Crown and Franz-Josef Orders, I can only adjective them as "disgraceful"...