Red Eagle 2nd Class

[ccj]

Here’s an interesting item. Red Eagle Order 2 with Swords and Swords on Ring... with 60 year...

 

opinions as it appears to be Silver-Gilt and has screwed in Swords and soldered on swords on ring. 
 

[laurentius]

A peculiar bird, there are many things I find questionable on this RAO, especially the design of the eagle. My cross 4th class has a better one than this 2nd class piece. I'm not the most knowledgeable on these so I'll wait for the more experienced collectors to give their opinion.

 

Kind regards, Laurentius

[Komtur]

It seems to be an about 80 years old at least major general earning a bravery decoration and getting such a decoration in another war before - respect!

 

If there really exist one - it should be easy to research him ?

 

Regards, Komtur.

[ccj]

Yes, the eagle is different from the one I own.

[91-old-inf-reg]

Good luck finding the Brest star!

[BlackcowboyBS]

I wonder why the  swords on the ring have different colors to the ones through the middle. I guess that if this was originally awarded and handed out, then they should look alike don't they? 

The 60 looks a little bit strange to me, I have a friend who is deep into this, I will sent him photos and ask his opinion on this. 

 

Swords are often mounted on old orders to rise their value, so I am allways suspicious, but I am not an expert on RAO.

 

[VtwinVince]

Is this the one that was on German fleabay? I had a close look at it, it is very well executed, but something made me think it's not quite right.

[ccj]

I’m not sure what to think of it but feel it’s a real RAO but I’m confused about the swords and the looks of the eagle. I think the eagle is nice but not the quality I’ve seen of early period orders. 

[ccj]

Also, I’m curious if ever a person was awarded such an award in WW1.  
it looks really but as stated, the Eagle looks late or post war and the 60 would mean about 1858

[91-old-inf-reg]

@Komtur@Triad08

I may be wrong, but wouldn’t  oak leaves be present on such a award? Especially with such long service, previous awarded classes would have made sense, or would oak leaves make it to bulky and it was of the opinion of the owner

[91-old-inf-reg]

@Triad08

according to eherenzeichen-orden, the oak leaves signified the upgrade from a previous award of a lower class, similar to the scheilfe  of the 3rd class. 
Best

[CRBeery]

Just send the photos to Andreas/Medalnet. Chances are he already knows the cross.

[91-old-inf-reg]

@Triad08 Very well put, couldn't agree more myself, I suppose its fun to speculate with such rare and unique pieces. 

[BlackcowboyBS]

Well I hate to spoil the party, but I have shown the photos to 3 knowledgable collectors. the first is a collector of prussian awards, the second is specialized in Red eagles and the third has deep knowledge in jubilee devices for the red eagle and so on. 

All three of them responded in the same way, all three said that this cross is not an original or an awarded piece. 

To be honest I guees this was the message of komtur as well, he is very kind and has good manner, so I guess he didn't want to make his statement in a cruel way but instead a polite one, claiming that the scenario in which one person could get such an award is highly unplausibly.

Edited May 5, 2021 by BlackcowboyBS

[Komtur]

2 hours ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

... claiming that the scenario in which one person could get such an award is highly unplausibly.

Indeed this was the main point I tried to express with my comment.

 

A second class Red Eagle Order was an award for ranks of major generals and similar navy or civil ranks, sometimes for one rank lower or higher. A jubilee device was handed out, if a decoration was awarded explicitly for a service jubilee. In that case the person must have been in active service for 60 years. It is quite impossible to be a major general in the Prussian Army and serve active for such a long time, because there was no official position, where an officer could persevere in that rank until his at least 76th year of life. But let us imagine, this happend nevertheless. Then our aged general must have been at war after his 60th jubilee to earn the swords to his order.

 

Highly unplausible is the best phrase for that scenario.

 

Regards, Komtur.

 

 

23 minutes ago, Triad08 said:

 

... I miss the old days, when the Germans communicated their messages clearly and unambiguously... you know, like the message they sent to Poland on September 1, 1939 ...

Well, what should we do, losing two wars, even though having the cuter uniforms and the superior sausages. We were forced to change our attitudes at least.

 

Without smiley, Komtur.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Komtur

[medalnet]

This is how the real thing looks like. (None Godet made)

[91-old-inf-reg]

36 minutes ago, medalnet said:

This is how the real thing looks like. (None Godet made)

I figured there should've been oak leaves, made me a little suspicious with out them. Now I can't image many of this particular RAO was awarded, is there a set number of awards? Phenomenal as always Andreas, you are the envy of many a collector.  

Edited May 6, 2021 by 91-old-inf-reg

[VtwinVince]

Thanks to Komtur and Andreas for chiming in on this analysis. Of course if you look at the award lists you'll realise that this is a spurious combination. I wonder if any parts of this cross are indeed genuine.

[medalnet]

On 05/05/2021 at 22:35, 91-old-inf-reg said:

I figured there should've been oak leaves, made me a little suspicious with out them. Now I can't image many of this particular RAO was awarded, is there a set number of awards? Phenomenal as always Andreas, you are the envy of many a collector. 

It's not just that mate. This one is the only original in this post.