webr55 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 Hello, two years ago I acquired this nice miniature chain of a Reserve/Landwehr Officer with both an Italian as well as a Siam Crown Order, and an Ottoman medal. Must have been in alive in 1934. The Siam order is not very common on German bars or chains. I find one good candidate: Lt dR Willy Koßmann (Kossmann) from Lw Fußartillerie, Berlin V, 1. Aufgebot, with an LD1, JK5 and SK5 According to DOA born 12.8.1875, was Geheimer expedierender Sekretär with the German Gesandtschaft in Bangkok in 1908. Also had the "Commemorative Medal on the Occasion of the Longest Reign Celebrations of the Accession to the Throne of H.M King Chulalongkorn" (see: https://gmic.co.uk/topic/76456-miniature-medal-of-the-most-exalted-order-of-the-white-elephant/), but he probably couldn't find a miniature for that. He was a diplomat in North Africa, Spain and Portugal, and later some kind of department head in the office of Reichspräsident Hindenburg, under Otto Meissner. According to MyHeritage, an "Ernst Johannes Willy Kossmann", born in Berlin, died 17.7.1934 in Osterode/Harz, I guess this is him. But might have still received the Hindenburg.
Dave Danner Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 It's not Koßmann. He is listed with the EK1, LD1 and Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz in the 1918 Handbuch für das deutsche Reich.
webr55 Posted March 27, 2023 Author Posted March 27, 2023 Ah ok. My alternatives are: - Hptm Miethner, Lwbezirk II Berlin, LD1, SK5 - Olt Sichler, Lwbezirk Halberstadt (Feldart. 2. Aufg.), LD2, SK5
VtwinVince Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 Nice Kette. You're right, the Siamese Crown Order is not common on German Schnallen. Here is another. 1
Dave Danner Posted March 28, 2023 Posted March 28, 2023 Miethner and Sichler both received the HOH3X. Maybe, as suggested above, there are Navy candidates. Otherwise, a recalled a.D. officer who might be hard to find if he received the foreign orders after leaving the Army. As for the war decorations, Oldenburg and Braunschweig may point to a X. Armeekorps connection.
webr55 Posted March 29, 2023 Author Posted March 29, 2023 Gets tricky. How about Olt dL Richert (LD2, JK5) or Hptm dL Bingel (LD1, JK5), both from Lw Berlin?
Dave Danner Posted March 30, 2023 Posted March 30, 2023 Bingel is Otto Hermann Karl Gustav Josef, *6.9.1869 in Lollar, Gießen, †9.9.1943 in Berlin-Charlottenburg. He was a Fürstlich Solms-Braunfels'scher Rentmeister. There are familial connections between the then-Fürst and Italy (his wife and mother), which might explain the JK5. No connection to any of the other decorations seems apparent. I have nothing on Richert other than that in the 1911 ranklist of reserve/Landwehr officers, he is listed as a Gefängnis-Inspektionsassistent in Charlottenburg. No Richert with that occupation is listed in the 1914 and 1915 Berlin address books; the closest is Albert Richert, listed as a Polizeibeamter. 1
webr55 Posted April 2, 2023 Author Posted April 2, 2023 Asking some specialists: I understand that the design of the Siam Crown Order changed in 1909, is it correct that this is a pre-1909 piece, like the two others above? Also, since both Behrendt and Walther received the 5th class with what looks like a silver medallion, would the gold medallion in my piece indicate that this is a 4th class?
VtwinVince Posted April 3, 2023 Posted April 3, 2023 Did anyone here snag this interesting Schnalle off fleabay yesterday? Has a Siam Crown Order.
Stogieman Posted April 3, 2023 Posted April 3, 2023 4 hours ago, VtwinVince said: Did anyone here snag this interesting Schnalle off fleabay yesterday? Has a Siam Crown Order. Saw this bar but it went for an outrageous price imo
VtwinVince Posted April 3, 2023 Posted April 3, 2023 I agree, the BMVO was pretty banged up and the SAO1mS was missing the reverse medallion. However, I believe it should be identifiable. I bailed at 1500.00.
webr55 Posted April 5, 2023 Author Posted April 5, 2023 Did anyone here manage to get the bar? Otherwise, I am not sure it makes sense to add value by doing research for free. I know this is a controversial issue which we have discussed times before. 1
Stogieman Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 That beat up 10x bar has been relisted, buyer’s remorse?
2dresq Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 I agree, I guess it depends on the sellers other transactions and "worthiness". Best Regards, JustinG
Graf Posted April 17, 2023 Posted April 17, 2023 It could be dodgy bidding by the seller from a second account or from a friend He went too high and scared the real bidders It is a common practice on eBay It is sad
bill Shea Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 Hello I am the owner of the 10 medal bar with the Siam Crown Order that is currently listed on Ebay. I sincerely hope that someone from the group is the winning bidder. That way webr55 can provide that valuable information. I would not expect you to share that information with me unless you chose to do so. That way, in case someone from outside your group has the winning bid, I could share that information with them. Kind Regards Bill Shea of The Ruptured Duck
Stogieman Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 I agree, I’ve met Bill a number of times at local shows. He’s a first rate individual
saschaw Posted April 18, 2023 Posted April 18, 2023 (edited) On 02/04/2023 at 10:16, webr55 said: Asking some specialists: I understand that the design of the Siam Crown Order changed in 1909, is it correct that this is a pre-1909 piece, like the two others above? Not a specialist for Siamese awards, but from my source, Borna Barac's "Reference Catalogue Orders, Medals and Decorations of the World instituted until 1945. Part IV – Gold Book, P – Z.", p. 1760 to 1762, this type was used from 1873 to 1941. I have never heard of any Siam design change in 1909?! Edited April 18, 2023 by saschaw
webr55 Posted April 19, 2023 Author Posted April 19, 2023 This should be KorvKap aD Martin von Cappeln (1882-1952). He held the Braunschweig, Oldenburg and SA3aX, as well as the Siam before the war. Also was Cdr of the Euphrat-Fluß-Abteilung, so must have had Turkish awards. 2
Daniel Krause Posted April 19, 2023 Posted April 19, 2023 webr55 is right, definetly v.Cappeln. Best, Daniel 1
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