Orden Pour le Merite - Hersteller Wagner 938 Silber Echte Glas-Emaille ab 1919 Too many fakes on the eBay.de

[Graf]

Too many copies on eBay.de - Germany

 told the Seller that this is copy He insists it is Original Wagner

In my Opinion it is new production with" 938'" marks on the loop and the one of the arms

Also marked "W" for Wagner on one of the arms

 

The PLM is presented in a new badly faked age box 

on eBay.de

Item number  314753864020

 

 

This is one of the many copies on eBay.de claiming to be original

I listed this one because the Seller very bluntly denies it is a copy although the PLM it is not near the Original Wagner made

 

 

 

Well  Buyer be Aware Rule apply

Edited August 19, 2023 by Graf

[Peter Cornwell]

Graf,

Hardly 'come and buy me' at that price. I guess the seller is employing expectancy theory or maybe it just cost him too much in the first place ? Dealers have their own food chain and must get stung by predatory suppliers from time to time. As you say, Caveat Emptor every time. Thanks for posting.

[Graf]

More pictures I "like the way the aged the new box

[drspeck]

1 hour ago, Graf said:

 

 

This guy is notorious for selliing fakes, see also this thread:

 

 

[Graf]

 

 

Thank you

 

I do not know if he is the same guy This seller is from Belgium i suspect it is one of many accounts

he is a bit arrogant when i questioned the originality of two of his items he stated that Kuenker Actions sold similar

 

[Graf]

This is the Seller name

• chrisnico2022 (986)

It looks the same guy He sold the same PLM from other eBay account

[speedytop]

chrisnico2022 is well known, and you must read his "Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen für dieses Angebot":

 

(5) Alle Artikel werden von mir grundsätzlich als Sammler- bzw. Museumsanfertigungen verkauft, da es mir nicht möglich ist das Alter bzw. die Echtheit zu garantieren. Ich bin lediglich Händler und kein vereidigter Gutachter.

(5) All items are sold by me in principle as collectors or museum productions, because it is not possible for me to guarantee the age or authenticity. I am only a dealer and not a sworn appraiser.

 

And here at the PlM is also important: "Vermutlich zwischen 1919 - 1930 gefertigt." > Probably made between 1919 - 1930, Probably made ... !

 

Uwe

[VtwinVince]

To the crusher with this garbage. The case looks like something from The Blue Max.

[Graf]

8 hours ago, speedytop said:

chrisnico2022 is well known, and you must read his "Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen für dieses Angebot":

 

(5) Alle Artikel werden von mir grundsätzlich als Sammler- bzw. Museumsanfertigungen verkauft, da es mir nicht möglich ist das Alter bzw. die Echtheit zu garantieren. Ich bin lediglich Händler und kein vereidigter Gutachter.

(5) All items are sold by me in principle as collectors or museum productions, because it is not possible for me to guarantee the age or authenticity. I am only a dealer and not a sworn appraiser.

 

And here at the PlM is also important: "Vermutlich zwischen 1919 - 1930 gefertigt." > Probably made between 1919 - 1930, Probably made ... !

 

Uwe

Hi Uwe,

When I contacted the Seller and questioned the originality of  PLM and 1st Class Star of Bulgarian Order for Bravery he replied that they are Original and I am totally wrong I did not like to argue however this PLM is post WW2 made and the Bulgarian Order is recently made one I listed my comments on this one on the Bulgarian Section.

 

What is disturbing fact is that even reputable sellers and Action Houses close their eyes and knowingly or not knowingly sell questionable items either by claiming that their are original or write a very vague not clear discription

On the other hand some Auction houses if they do not know the originality they write that the item might be a copy

 

Best Regards

 

[Herman]

Indeed it is very disturbing if auction houses are willingly selling cheap and crappy copies as high value originals. This in the end is killing for our hobby. 

 

Regards

Herman 

[Stogieman]

At any given moment you can find about half a dozen “PLM’s” on eBay. Many offered as original but I’ve yet to see an awarded piece except in a friend’s collection. People bid like crazy on this junk and every once in a blue moon a really nice original order comes up and sells for a reasonable price. Saw an Albert Order Grand Cross go for $1.2k recently!

[Graf]

2 hours ago, Stogieman said:

At any given moment you can find about half a dozen “PLM’s” on eBay. Many offered as original but I’ve yet to see an awarded piece except in a friend’s collection. People bid like crazy on this junk and every once in a blue moon a really nice original order comes up and sells for a reasonable price. Saw an Albert Order Grand Cross go for $1.2k recently!

I fully agree with you

[Graf]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334942517724?hash=item4dfc2139dc:g:-HkAAOSwNapkqd4W&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwIMKojGs%2Fk2QVLKgQr7SAlCWpftUzQ6AOVdv%2FS55NtOsyZyl7UfSPTA46O9NYGlxLhY5EATsBdI7hPxs3XdxSd%2B5dx49QJYAubacVzfs9Gc2Wua9uv4IvzkaCSR%2Fd%2FZMWMkcGrLX4y8Hw1UtCSvK0v%2BcclbNSXYlg1rOMyd76YOVImsBB%2BSXZuVpzIeHPlDevIFT%2F22KEz0OB%2B3L51lrDdDHrBLFgz3zGMOPhc9fVW5%2BdZ5lJpGb5sh9EmtdXIwLIA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7q5j7LCYg

 

This is a link to a PLM Grouping which include typical Wagner made piece

You can compare the difference

[VtwinVince]

Yup, that's the grouping I mentioned.

[Graf]

5 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Yup, that's the grouping I mentioned.

Thank you for listing the link I forgot to mention your name a contributor

 

Cheers

[GMU]

That is a modern piece of garbage..... What a crook

Edited August 23, 2023 by GMU

[VtwinVince]

Please specify what is garbage and who is a crook.

[GMU]

On 23/08/2023 at 16:17, VtwinVince said:

Please specify what is garbage and who is a crook.

Oh yes, of course, I was referring to the thread opener and its seller

[VtwinVince]

Thanks, and I agree with you. These grifters are ruining our hobby.

[Graf]

On 19/08/2023 at 17:15, Graf said:

More pictures I "like the way the aged the new box

This PLM is for sale again If you missed the last time now is your chance (just kidding0

Also many fake German states items This Guy is very arrogant when questioned about the originality of the items

[Stogieman]

Absolutely a piece of junk! Multiple fakes on US eBay too. Claimed makers Wilm, Friedlander, Wagner, etc.

to see some real ones please reference the Traveling Circus Thread

[waldo]

Hello everyone, 
there are definitely no original PLMs being sold on eBay. 
Even after the war, the owners were all organized and the 
family certainly knew how to appreciate the value of the 
pieces and, if so, bring them to an auction house.
Best regards
Walter

[VtwinVince]

Walter, the PLM with Urkunde from Jacobs looks genuine to me, or?

[waldo]

Wo ist diese zu sehen?

[VtwinVince]

It has been offered on a buy-it-now on US ebay for some time. Graf has attached the link above.