Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 (edited) Too many copies on eBay.de - Germany told the Seller that this is copy He insists it is Original Wagner In my Opinion it is new production with" 938'" marks on the loop and the one of the arms Also marked "W" for Wagner on one of the arms The PLM is presented in a new badly faked age box on eBay.de Item number 314753864020 This is one of the many copies on eBay.de claiming to be original I listed this one because the Seller very bluntly denies it is a copy although the PLM it is not near the Original Wagner made Well Buyer be Aware Rule apply Edited August 19, 2023 by Graf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Cornwell Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 Graf, Hardly 'come and buy me' at that price. I guess the seller is employing expectancy theory or maybe it just cost him too much in the first place ? Dealers have their own food chain and must get stung by predatory suppliers from time to time. As you say, Caveat Emptor every time. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 More pictures I "like the way the aged the new box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drspeck Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Graf said: This guy is notorious for selliing fakes, see also this thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 Thank you I do not know if he is the same guy This seller is from Belgium i suspect it is one of many accounts he is a bit arrogant when i questioned the originality of two of his items he stated that Kuenker Actions sold similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 This is the Seller name chrisnico2022 (986) It looks the same guy He sold the same PLM from other eBay account 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytop Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 chrisnico2022 is well known, and you must read his "Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen für dieses Angebot": (5) Alle Artikel werden von mir grundsätzlich als Sammler- bzw. Museumsanfertigungen verkauft, da es mir nicht möglich ist das Alter bzw. die Echtheit zu garantieren. Ich bin lediglich Händler und kein vereidigter Gutachter. (5) All items are sold by me in principle as collectors or museum productions, because it is not possible for me to guarantee the age or authenticity. I am only a dealer and not a sworn appraiser. And here at the PlM is also important: "Vermutlich zwischen 1919 - 1930 gefertigt." > Probably made between 1919 - 1930, Probably made ... ! Uwe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted August 19, 2023 Share Posted August 19, 2023 To the crusher with this garbage. The case looks like something from The Blue Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 19, 2023 Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 8 hours ago, speedytop said: chrisnico2022 is well known, and you must read his "Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen für dieses Angebot": (5) Alle Artikel werden von mir grundsätzlich als Sammler- bzw. Museumsanfertigungen verkauft, da es mir nicht möglich ist das Alter bzw. die Echtheit zu garantieren. Ich bin lediglich Händler und kein vereidigter Gutachter. (5) All items are sold by me in principle as collectors or museum productions, because it is not possible for me to guarantee the age or authenticity. I am only a dealer and not a sworn appraiser. And here at the PlM is also important: "Vermutlich zwischen 1919 - 1930 gefertigt." > Probably made between 1919 - 1930, Probably made ... ! Uwe Hi Uwe, When I contacted the Seller and questioned the originality of PLM and 1st Class Star of Bulgarian Order for Bravery he replied that they are Original and I am totally wrong I did not like to argue however this PLM is post WW2 made and the Bulgarian Order is recently made one I listed my comments on this one on the Bulgarian Section. What is disturbing fact is that even reputable sellers and Action Houses close their eyes and knowingly or not knowingly sell questionable items either by claiming that their are original or write a very vague not clear discription On the other hand some Auction houses if they do not know the originality they write that the item might be a copy Best Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 Indeed it is very disturbing if auction houses are willingly selling cheap and crappy copies as high value originals. This in the end is killing for our hobby. Regards Herman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted August 20, 2023 Share Posted August 20, 2023 At any given moment you can find about half a dozen “PLM’s” on eBay. Many offered as original but I’ve yet to see an awarded piece except in a friend’s collection. People bid like crazy on this junk and every once in a blue moon a really nice original order comes up and sells for a reasonable price. Saw an Albert Order Grand Cross go for $1.2k recently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 20, 2023 Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Stogieman said: At any given moment you can find about half a dozen “PLM’s” on eBay. Many offered as original but I’ve yet to see an awarded piece except in a friend’s collection. People bid like crazy on this junk and every once in a blue moon a really nice original order comes up and sells for a reasonable price. Saw an Albert Order Grand Cross go for $1.2k recently! I fully agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 20, 2023 Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 https://www.ebay.com/itm/334942517724?hash=item4dfc2139dc:g:-HkAAOSwNapkqd4W&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwIMKojGs%2Fk2QVLKgQr7SAlCWpftUzQ6AOVdv%2FS55NtOsyZyl7UfSPTA46O9NYGlxLhY5EATsBdI7hPxs3XdxSd%2B5dx49QJYAubacVzfs9Gc2Wua9uv4IvzkaCSR%2Fd%2FZMWMkcGrLX4y8Hw1UtCSvK0v%2BcclbNSXYlg1rOMyd76YOVImsBB%2BSXZuVpzIeHPlDevIFT%2F22KEz0OB%2B3L51lrDdDHrBLFgz3zGMOPhc9fVW5%2BdZ5lJpGb5sh9EmtdXIwLIA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7q5j7LCYg This is a link to a PLM Grouping which include typical Wagner made piece You can compare the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Yup, that's the grouping I mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted August 21, 2023 Author Share Posted August 21, 2023 5 hours ago, VtwinVince said: Yup, that's the grouping I mentioned. Thank you for listing the link I forgot to mention your name a contributor Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMU Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 (edited) That is a modern piece of garbage..... What a crook Edited August 23, 2023 by GMU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted August 23, 2023 Share Posted August 23, 2023 Please specify what is garbage and who is a crook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMU Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 On 23/08/2023 at 16:17, VtwinVince said: Please specify what is garbage and who is a crook. Oh yes, of course, I was referring to the thread opener and its seller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 Thanks, and I agree with you. These grifters are ruining our hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graf Posted December 9, 2023 Author Share Posted December 9, 2023 On 19/08/2023 at 17:15, Graf said: More pictures I "like the way the aged the new box This PLM is for sale again If you missed the last time now is your chance (just kidding0 Also many fake German states items This Guy is very arrogant when questioned about the originality of the items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 Absolutely a piece of junk! Multiple fakes on US eBay too. Claimed makers Wilm, Friedlander, Wagner, etc. to see some real ones please reference the Traveling Circus Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 Hello everyone, there are definitely no original PLMs being sold on eBay. Even after the war, the owners were all organized and the family certainly knew how to appreciate the value of the pieces and, if so, bring them to an auction house. Best regards Walter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 Walter, the PLM with Urkunde from Jacobs looks genuine to me, or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 Wo ist diese zu sehen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted December 11, 2023 Share Posted December 11, 2023 It has been offered on a buy-it-now on US ebay for some time. Graf has attached the link above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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