Wurttemberg/Bavarian/Austrian/Bulgarian Bar

[Mark M]

I bought this bar as it has a very unusual combination of awards om it:

1914 EK2

WKrzX

BL

?M3K

BA 5

The bar is a little dirty, and the St Alexander has a small crack in the lower arm of the cross but it is pure WWI.

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[Mark M]

Close up of the St. Alexander:

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[Mark M]

The reverse:

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[Mark M]

Reverse of the medals:

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[Mark M]

I was looking at the bar trying to find out why the St. Alexander was slightly loose. I looked behind the ribbon and discovered a set of swords peering back! At some point the ring had slipped its threads detaching the award. Someone, in an effort to keep from losing the medal, had slipped the swords device behind the ribbon to keep it in place. As the securing threads were still tied it was a quick fix to properly remount the St. Alexander as it was originally attached.

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I am curious to hear what other members think about this combination of awards. I know it is non-IDable but would this have been to an Wurttemberg military offical of some sort?

Regards,

Mark

[Wild Card]

Hi Mark.

A very nice bar with, to me, an unusual combination of awards.

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

THAT is NOT the bar I was expecting to see....

Abandon Not All Hope!

Although I didn't find a match for the Ludwig Cross (only ONE is listed in 1916 so he may have fallen through the Personal Nachrichten cracks) and I do not yet (soon sooooon) have the Wilhelmskreuz list which will CONFIRM without all doubt...

I am fairly sure I have him:

Gustav Klein

Leutnant der Reserve Gren Rgt 119 18.11.07 D4d (resident of Ravensburg)

Oberleutnant dR 26.3.15 E

?M3K 14 June 1916 as

Oberleutnant dR ?esterreichische-Deutsche BODENSEEFLOTILLE.

Bulgarian St Alexander Order-Knight "with Swords" (no mention of On Ring or not) 16 February 1918 as one of only SIX to W?rttembergers FOUR of which were, to him and 3 fellows as

Mitglied Kaiserl. Motorbootskorps

April 1917 listed in the Home Establishment secret Rank List of XIII Army Corps as

in charge at Milit?rpolizeistelle Friedrichshafen am Bodensee.

So what you have there is a volunteer paramilitary water border guard patrol boat officer's bar.

Not bad. Not bad at ALL.

So, mes Vieux, what does that EK tell us? Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[HeikoGrusdat]

if he was only at the Bodensee...........then this should be one of the magic EK`s on combattant ribbon for home service - right? But why have the W?rttemberger and the Bulgarian then swords...?

[Guest Rick Research]

Indeed.

ALL "military" Wilhelmskreuzs had Xs, even for clerks in Stuttgart-- just like Wehrmacht KVKs in the next war. And I suspect very much that the Bulgarian "swords on ring" here is THEIR attempt to "make up" a "Kriegsverdienst" award and NOT a statutory promotion from a lower grade with swords. I have seen this "on ring" several times in German groups where such a class promotion makes no sense.

Of course, doing the Sachsen-Coburg rolls, I find MOST awards to Bulgarians make no sense... with palace gardeners, the royal travel agent, and Hoflakei types getting very important awards indeed "with swords."

So maybe this was an inexplicable and inappropriate exchange of awards in BOTH directions!

[HeikoGrusdat]

ok, did not know this on the Wilhelmscross, thank you Rick... but this is really a very special and rare bar!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

I have just gone through von Moser's "Die W?rttemberger im Weltkrieg" and then my stellv. GenKdo XIII AK Rangliste April 1917 AND the soon (very sooooooooon) to be published "Non-W?rttemberg WW1 Awards to W?rttembergers" and found that the

Austrian-German Bodensee Flotilla was headquartered at Friedrichshafen. Its commander in the autumn of 1917 was Hauptmann dL aD (24.12.14 M4m) Karl Freiherr von Gemmingen-Guttenberg.

HIS non W?rttemberg awards are gazetted in the Personal Nachrichten as:

?M3K also 14.6.16 as commander of the ?DBSF

Austro-Hungarian Franz Joseph Order Officer Cross (!!) with War Decoration 20.7.17

Bulgarian St Alexander Order Officer "with Crown and Swords" 15.11.17 and

Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class on the "red" ribbon 31.12.17

and wouldn't we all like to know how THAT one happened along!

PS since Bulgaria does NOT abut the Bodensee, I can only assume that the ?DBSF let the Tsar or Tsarevich drive around VERY fast in one of their motorboats, or something!!!

[Claudio]

Very interesting thread.

Maybe Oberleutnant dR Klein knew the guy who was wearing my medal bar here below...

Ciao,

Claudio

[derGeneral]

lol, I live in Friedrichshafen/Bodensee In two weeks I could search him in our city Archives, maybe I found something.

[JensF.]

I have this quite mysterious medal bar with a rare und unusual row of awards:

[Ulsterman]

well done to the Tomemaster!

Where does one find a roll for the Willhelhscross?

Is it beng published soon?

Thx.

[Stogieman]

Wow Mark... bet you were mot expecting that!!!

[Daniel Krause]

Oh, guys,

for the W?rttemberg Wilhelmskreuz......has nobody a roll????? I have!

Gustav Klein, Oberleutnant der Reserve in the Bodenseeflottille got his Wilhelmskreuz with swords 15.April 1916.

Best regards

Daniel

BTW, this roll will be available soon.....among others like W?rttemberg Military Merit Order, golden Military Merit Medal, Cross of Merit......not only Ricky is working hard.....

[Jacky]

Those orders of St Alexander do look quite nice,

I have a silvered Cross without swords, found together with the Labour-Decoration 1st class of Belgium in a box for the Labour-decoration.

As I could see, both the imprints were to be seen in the box, so they must have been for quite a long time in the box, but further still a guess for me.

Lovely bars, keep on going!!!

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

I would like to present yet another group with a Bulgarian piece out on the end, in this case the Natonal Order of Merit (military division), .

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Mark M]

Wild Card

Great looking bar! Interesting as he did not mount the EK2 on the bar, but does wear it on his ribbon bar! It is a very unusual combination to boot!

Regards,

Mark

[MichaW]

Hello,

I will show you another bar with medals from W?rttemberg and Bulgarian.

regards

Michael

[webr55]

Gentlemen,

I would like to present yet another group with a Bulgarian piece out on the end, in this case the Natonal Order of Merit (military division), .

Best wishes,

Wild Card

Hello Wild Card,

I see two possible wearers for your Brunswick bar:

1) Kutzen, Lt. 16.10.06, Hptm 18.4.16 N7n, 1919 Maj aD. In 1914, he is listed in IR92 with BrH4 and Bulgarian BMO5.

A Hptm Kutzen got the HHOX on 7.2.18; that might however have been the 1914 Olt from IR117 (Hptm 8.10.14 Q9q, Maj aD).

2) Lieberk?hn, Olt 27.1.13 V8v, 1919 Maj aD. In 1914, he is listed in HusR17 with BrH4 and Bulgarian BMO5.

That's all I have. I cannot find any further trace of either. Also, I only went through the Brunswick regiments.

Chris

[Wild Card]

Wild Card

Great looking bar! Interesting as he did not mount the EK2 on the bar, but does wear it on his ribbon bar! It is a very unusual combination to boot!

Regards,

Mark

Yes, Mark, the same thing struck me - very curious to be sure; and thank you for the compliment,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Chris,

Thank you very much for the information; I did not have a clue. I appreciate your efforts.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

Yet another guy from Friedrichshafen/Lake constance, also with W?rttemberg, Austrian and Bulgarian awards - there seem many to have been around on the lake ...