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    Wurttemberg/Bavarian/Austrian/Bulgarian Bar

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    I bought this bar as it has a very unusual combination of awards om it:

    1914 EK2




    BA 5

    The bar is a little dirty, and the St Alexander has a small crack in the lower arm of the cross but it is pure WWI.


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    I was looking at the bar trying to find out why the St. Alexander was slightly loose. I looked behind the ribbon and discovered a set of swords peering back! At some point the ring had slipped its threads detaching the award. Someone, in an effort to keep from losing the medal, had slipped the swords device behind the ribbon to keep it in place. As the securing threads were still tied it was a quick fix to properly remount the St. Alexander as it was originally attached.


    I am curious to hear what other members think about this combination of awards. I know it is non-IDable but would this have been to an Wurttemberg military offical of some sort?



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    Guest Rick Research

    :Cat-Scratch: THAT is NOT the bar I was expecting to see....

    Abandon Not All Hope! :shame:

    Although I didn't find a match for the Ludwig Cross (only ONE is listed in 1916 so he may have fallen through the Personal Nachrichten cracks) and I do not yet (soon sooooon) have the Wilhelmskreuz list which will CONFIRM without all doubt...

    I am fairly sure I have him:

    Gustav Klein

    Leutnant der Reserve Gren Rgt 119 18.11.07 D4d (resident of Ravensburg)

    Oberleutnant dR 26.3.15 E

    ?M3K 14 June 1916 as

    Oberleutnant dR ?esterreichische-Deutsche BODENSEEFLOTILLE.

    Bulgarian St Alexander Order-Knight "with Swords" (no mention of On Ring or not) 16 February 1918 as one of only SIX to W?rttembergers FOUR of which were, to him and 3 fellows as

    Mitglied Kaiserl. Motorbootskorps

    April 1917 listed in the Home Establishment secret Rank List of XIII Army Corps as

    in charge at Milit?rpolizeistelle Friedrichshafen am Bodensee.

    So what you have there is a volunteer paramilitary water border guard patrol boat officer's bar. :speechless1:

    Not bad. Not bad at ALL. :rolleyes:

    So, mes Vieux, what does that EK tell us? Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. :jumping::jumping:

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    Guest Rick Research

    Indeed. :beer::jumping::jumping:

    ALL "military" Wilhelmskreuzs had Xs, even for clerks in Stuttgart-- just like Wehrmacht KVKs in the next war. And I suspect very much that the Bulgarian "swords on ring" here is THEIR attempt to "make up" a "Kriegsverdienst" award and NOT a statutory promotion from a lower grade with swords. I have seen this "on ring" several times in German groups where such a class promotion makes no sense.

    Of course, doing the Sachsen-Coburg rolls, I find MOST awards to Bulgarians make no sense... with palace gardeners, the royal travel agent, and Hoflakei types getting very important awards indeed "with swords."

    So maybe this was an inexplicable and inappropriate exchange of awards in BOTH directions! :cheeky:

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    Guest Rick Research

    I have just gone through von Moser's "Die W?rttemberger im Weltkrieg" and then my stellv. GenKdo XIII AK Rangliste April 1917 AND the soon (very sooooooooon) to be published "Non-W?rttemberg WW1 Awards to W?rttembergers" and found that the

    Austrian-German Bodensee Flotilla was headquartered at Friedrichshafen. Its commander in the autumn of 1917 was Hauptmann dL aD (24.12.14 M4m) Karl Freiherr von Gemmingen-Guttenberg.

    HIS non W?rttemberg awards are gazetted in the Personal Nachrichten as:

    ?M3K also 14.6.16 as commander of the ?DBSF

    Austro-Hungarian Franz Joseph Order Officer Cross (!!) with War Decoration 20.7.17

    Bulgarian St Alexander Order Officer "with Crown and Swords" 15.11.17 and

    Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class on the "red" ribbon 31.12.17 :speechless1:

    and wouldn't we all like to know how THAT one happened along!

    PS since Bulgaria does NOT abut the Bodensee, I can only assume that the ?DBSF let the Tsar or Tsarevich drive around VERY fast in one of their motorboats, or something!!! :cheeky:

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    Oh, guys,

    for the W?rttemberg Wilhelmskreuz......has nobody a roll????? I have!

    Gustav Klein, Oberleutnant der Reserve in the Bodenseeflottille got his Wilhelmskreuz with swords 15.April 1916.

    Best regards


    BTW, this roll will be available soon.....among others like W?rttemberg Military Merit Order, golden Military Merit Medal, Cross of Merit......not only Ricky is working hard.....

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    Those orders of St Alexander do look quite nice,

    I have a silvered Cross without swords, found together with the Labour-Decoration 1st class of Belgium in a box for the Labour-decoration.

    As I could see, both the imprints were to be seen in the box, so they must have been for quite a long time in the box, but further still a guess for me.

    Lovely bars, keep on going!!!


    Kind regards,


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    I would like to present yet another group with a Bulgarian piece out on the end, in this case the Natonal Order of Merit (military division), .

    Best wishes,

    Wild Card

    Hello Wild Card,

    I see two possible wearers for your Brunswick bar:

    1) Kutzen, Lt. 16.10.06, Hptm 18.4.16 N7n, 1919 Maj aD. In 1914, he is listed in IR92 with BrH4 and Bulgarian BMO5.

    A Hptm Kutzen got the HHOX on 7.2.18; that might however have been the 1914 Olt from IR117 (Hptm 8.10.14 Q9q, Maj aD).

    2) Lieberk?hn, Olt 27.1.13 V8v, 1919 Maj aD. In 1914, he is listed in HusR17 with BrH4 and Bulgarian BMO5.

    That's all I have. I cannot find any further trace of either. Also, I only went through the Brunswick regiments.


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    Wild Card

    Great looking bar! Interesting as he did not mount the EK2 on the bar, but does wear it on his ribbon bar! It is a very unusual combination to boot!



    Yes, Mark, the same thing struck me - very curious to be sure; and thank you for the compliment,

    Wild Card

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