peter monahan

Nice work, Morar! You should definitely keep it up: a nice, low cost way to stay involved in history.

I would suggest contacting the Naval Museum at Greenwich. Given the exalted rank of the Captain, there is some chance at least that a copy of the photo with these men identified does exist. Good luck with the hunt!

Yes, we tend to forget the percentage of deaths which would have come under 'Other'. The oddest I've heard of were what the Chindits, in the next 'Great' war referred to irreverently as 'Killed by Flying Fruit': men who, during an aerial resupply drop in the jungles of Burma, were struck by a case of tinned pineapple or a duffle bag full of boots. Drooped from 200-300 feet without parachutes! One of our Canadian Prime Ministers, Lester 'Mike' Pearson almost earned such a plaque. While on leave from the Royal Flying Corps he was crossing the street in a blackout and was run down by a London bus and seriously, though nit fatally injured.

Captain Welcome to the GMIC and thank you for posting the ribbon chart. I notice that at least one post on page 1 of this forum refers to someone - President Mugabe perhaps - wearing his medals in the wrong order, so my guess would be that the chart shows the correct order of precedence and that photos of the medals being worn which show a different order are due to errors by the wearers. Not an uncommon occurrence in many countries. I also notice a reference in a chat between 'RhodesianMilitary' and 'Shauma', also pon page 1, to the 'Zimbabwe Medal Society'. It was apparently founded by a Keith Holshausen and the late Wing Commander Peter Cooke, founding chairman of the Zimbabwe Medal Society. Keith is also a member of the OMSA but I suspect that if you contacted either Rhodesian Military or Shauma - click on their names on page 1- they would be happy to tell you how to join that group and perhAPS answer other questions you may have. Peter

Nice find indeed!

Interesting! In 1967 Canada celebrated its centennial as a country and, among other events, held a series of military 'pageants', for which the government ordered quite a number of 'historical uniforms'. They looked fine on parade but wouldn't fool a tailor or a soldier familiar with the original issue. I also have a friend who makes museum quality copies of 1812 era uniforms, some for Parks Canada and their historical sites, some for European museums and some for private collectors. More than one of these has shown up for sale, tagged as 'original' although, again, most are not 100% accurate on the inside.

Than you, Bayern, for jogging my old memory. I did say 'non-spotted' cat but forgot to mention the spotted South American cat, the jaguar!

Bill My North American culture interfering here! I read 'panther' and immediately thought of the non-spotted North and South American cat - also known as 'painter', mountain lion and jaguar. This animal clearly has spots, so perhaps a search using the term 'leopard' might turn out more clues. Just a thought.

I can't give you specifics, but I do know from reading [mostly military fiction] that, especially at the lower levels, promotion was often for 'time in grade'. As W.E.B. Griffin put it in a book on WWII Marines, if you could 'hear thunder and see lightning' [and had two years in] the jump from 2nd Lt to 1st Lt was just about automatic. I think that would have been especially true in peace time - as a way of retaining officers who might otherwise resign. The Canadian Armed Forces are very 'NCO heavy' for that reason: to hold onto skilled soldiers such as mechanics, riggers are anybody whose job has a civilian equivalent, you have to promote them regularly.

I was going to recommend both Gordon and Abbott and Tamplin but my expertise on books is 20 years out of date. Both still hold pride of place on my bookshelf but I wasn't certain whether newer, better books were out there. I still treasure both a 6th edition and a 7th of Gordon, for the detailed information on which units earned which bars. In fact a friend was responsible, 30 plus years ago now, for adding to and correcting some of the units of the Indian Army mentioned in the campaign medals for that part of the Empire.

That makes more sense! Sorry, I'm more used to Canadian medal [pairs] which were not issued until after 1918, so the idea that he might have been issued his Star before he demobbed is a bit odd to me.

Chaco Interesting question! Many collectors and ALL military quartermasters have an iron clad rule: Never through ANYTHING away! Even if you don't know what it is. The bandolier have gone through a half dozen official and semi-official hands - Singapore militia? Hong Kong defence force? - before being finally marked off the books. Or, it may have gone straight from SA to Japan in the possession of a veteran of that war. Either would make a great tale but, sadly, almost impossible to know.

I'm afraid I can't help with info. Perhaps some UK member will have access to what you need. I couldn't help commenting on the, I assume self-awarded, 'C P L' rank on the Star. I see that his card indicates that we WAS a Corporal at some point but had lost the rate, presumably, before the medal was awarded.

The only connection I can find, in an admittedly brief search, is that the current [I think] Somali Ministry of Defence has a coat of arms supported by two spotted cats - heraldic leopards. Possibly a complete coincidence.

If you hold it up to your ear can you hear the ocean? [I was thinking of the other kind of shell! ]

It looks as if the manufacturer is "North' something - a commercial label by the look of it, which is odd to my mind. Any way to find out if this company DID make gear for the Scouts? Here's the only image I found searching 'Selous Scouts gear made by 'North''. Similar, I think, but not the same. But the source is a Pintrest page, so no useful source for the shot.

Thank you, Gunner! I looked that up but clearly not in the correct place. My [very limited] expertise is with Canadian Great War records, when officers did not have numbers at all, and the 19th century British system [ditto]. I suspected British officers must have gotten the serials between the wars but didn't double check my source. My bad. Peter

It is a lovely looking piece indeed. I'm afraid I can't comment on age or authenticity but I noticed that the sash seems to have a lighter blue section at the top. Trick of the light or has it been added in to the darker ribbon?

The bar to the MC - double winner - may narrow it down a bit. The second rosette simply indicates that the ribbon it is on is for the 1914 Star, not the 1914-15. The Territorial Medal suggests that he 'stayed involved' between the Wars, so a secondment to a staff position for en elderly officer who may not have finished the Second War [ hence no WWII Victory?] seems reasonable. BTW, officers were not given service numbers before 1920. And I think an officer's serial should be 6 digits, not 5 [and 8 for ORs].

The 'fancy silver buckles' are actually not uncommon for medals of that period: Crimea and Mutiny in particular. Issuing campaign medals was a relatively new thing and regulations hadn't caught up. Some soldiers sewed them directly to their tunics - with the obvious disadvantages that brought - but others, and not all officers, bought the buckles and wore the medals pinned on, often in clusters, as rules of precedence and so on were a thing of the future in 1860. No opinion on the naming except to echo the cautions: 30 years ago somebody made a killing when they figured out how to 'officially impress' blank Crimea to members of the Light Brigade whose medals had not, till that point, come on the market. Sadly, it is impossible to date engraving except by style and some fakers are that clever.

Agreed.

Many years ago I spent far too much time on weekends hanging about a store which sold medals and militaria. I even worked there one summer and an occasional customer, in Toronto, Canada in the 1980s, was a Lutheran minister who needed to renew the ribbons on his WWII German medals, which he wore on Remembrance Day [November 11th] and possibly on other occasions.

The qualifications for the 1939-45 War Medal are listed in Major Gordon's invaluable work as 'awarded to all full-time personnel of the armed forces wherever their service during the war was rendered. Operational and non-operational service counted, providing that it was twenty-eight days service or more.' OTOH, yes, the 1939-45 Star requires him to have served outside the UK. Very interesting!

I've had my wrist gently slapped once, years ago, for suggesting someone try another forum for an answer, but this is a very specialized enquiry indeed. So, if none of our learned members chime in with an identification, you might try the British Badge Forum's 'Airborne, Elite and Special Forces' section.

Thanks, Tony. That helps. The Canadian Expeditionary Force is/was a military oddity: The Minister of Militia, who hated the snotty-nosed British officers sent over every year to train 'our boys', was himself the embodiment of all the worst traits the Victorian officer corps: vindictive, grasping and stupid. When War was declared he basically ignored our tiny standing army and started over from scratch, raising the CEF. One of the few sensible things that was done was to assign, very early, number blocks, so every one of the 660,000 recruits had a unique identifier. There are a few of the older units which had to be 'counselled' to accept the new method and so there are a very few duplicate numbers, mostly men already serving, but by and lafrge the system worked well and is a real boon to researchers. Peter