new world Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 Nice badges!Is there a book on collecting Yugoslavian badges?WilliamThe graničari were the border unit guards in old Yugoslavia. Today they don't exist anymore, as far as border controling is not anymore matter of the army, but of the MUP (Ministarstvo Unutra?njih Poslova, Ministry of Internal Affairs), basically policemen.This was their badge, usually worn on the uniform jacket, on the left chest. Most of them were produced by "IKOM" - Zagreb, some other by "AUR-METAL" - Subotica (Serbia), or, as this one, by "AUREA" - Celje (Slovenia).The pin, this is from Subotica:Regards,Filip
Gordon Craig Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 William,The only book I am aware of on Yugslav badges is "Yugoslavia Army Insignia & Deorations 1918-1990 by Brian Furlan and Henad Bjeols. My copy was printed in 1991 and was published by Militaria House, Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The ISBN is 0-929757-43-2. It is a photocopy type of book so there are no colour shots of anything except the cover. There is also a book called "Insignia of the Army of Yugoslavia". This book was published in 1997 in Belgrade and only 6500 copies were made. It covers the insignia adopted from 1994 to 1997 and shows uniforms and unit shoulder patches. The ISBN is 86-335-0027-2. This book is in Serbian and EnglishRegards,Gordon
Bryan Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 There is a nice book on Yugoslavian orders right now on eBay. Item number: 200085762023
order_of_victory Posted March 6, 2007 Posted March 6, 2007 (edited) The seller has 50 of thouse border guard badges for sale http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SERBIA-YUGOSLAVIA-BO...5QQcmdZViewItemAnd this has to be the best Yugoslavian book I have seen http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/YUGOSLAVIA-SERBIA-Ti...8QQcmdZViewItemOrder of Victory Edited March 6, 2007 by order_of_victory
Christian Zulus Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 MY SMALL & HUMBLE YU-COLLECTION - Part 1Gentlemen,my I present my small & humble YU-collection to you.The "crown-juwel" is of course that tiny fragment : http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13964Best regards ChristianCIVIL SECTION:
Christian Zulus Posted March 16, 2007 Posted March 16, 2007 MY SMALL & HUMBLE YU-COLLECTION - Part 2MILITARY SECTION:
Bryan Posted March 19, 2007 Posted March 19, 2007 You have some nice things I do not have yet.I shall recall that the tiny fragment is not from the Communist period. So no link with the Communist orders you have shown.
Christian Zulus Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 I shall recall that the tiny fragment is not from the Communist period. So no link with the Communist orders you have shown. Dear Bryan,western (conservative) medias regard Yugoslavia till october 2000 as a socialist - quasi communist - authoritarian regime . I promoted in january 2000 to the rank of the "Secretary General" of the official and bilateral "Austrian - Serbian Union" (former: "Austrian - Yugoslavian Society") - after some "heroic deeds" at the "propaganda front" (organizing concerts, etc.) during the 1999 war. So, some stubborn people still regard me as a "Milosevic-Communist" . BTW: I never regarded Slobadan Milosevic (and his family & friends) as THE perfect leader(s) for Yugoslavia. They did - besides the NATO - an enormous harm to that great country .What I want to say is, that I would include all awards till october 2000 to the so called Communist period of Yugoslavia - or to a "transition" period. My phaleristic theory.So, my F-117 A has a certain right to be among the JNA-items .The two "Orden Rada" (Order of Labour) 3cl & 2cl (mint-fresh & with miniatures + ribbons) are from the grand-grand-aunt of my daughter, Ivanka Besevic-Boreli, a former well known journalist for cultural affairs. She got them as "long-service-awards", but she had been the No. 174 to receive the "Orden Rada" 3cl from comrade Tito. Ivanka, still alive, is the daughter of Nikola Besevic, one of the most important Yugoslavian painters in the first half of the last century. Years ago she published a great book (partly in English) about her father: http://www.narodnimuzej.org.yu/code/navigate.php?Id=122 (please scroll down). I also keep the documents and boxes of Ivanka's YU-Orders. The rv. are with pins, due to the fact, that she is a lady. The other 3cl is with screwback. So, some family history in the collection .Best regards Christian
Bryan Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Thanks for your answer Christian. Even if you are far more aware about Yugoslavian history than me, I still like to draw a line between the Yugoslavia known under Tito and the end of the union (break-up) in 1991. From my point of view, Yugoslavia ceased to exist with the different independances from 1991-1992.The rv. are with pins, due to the fact, that she is a lady. The other 3cl is with screwback.Do you have a theory that pinback awards were mostly given to women ???
Christian Zulus Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Thanks for your answer Christian. Even if you are far more aware about Yugoslavian history than me, I still like to draw a line between the Yugoslavia known under Tito and the end of the union (break-up) in 1991. From my point of view, Yugoslavia ceased to exist with the different independances from 1991-1992.Do you have a theory that pinback awards were mostly given to women ???Dear Bryan,no, that's legally not correct: Yugoslavia ceased to exist last year (2006) with the independence of Montenegro. The former intermediate name "Union of Serbia and Montenegro" had been only a dictate of the EU (Mr. "happy smiling" Solana). Now the Republic of Serbia is still the legal heir of old YU.I would tend to call 1991 - october 2000 a somehow transitional period. Milosevic gave two "Orders of Freedom" to 2 generals of the 1999 war, as we could read at this thread.Well, I assume, when they also had pinbacks and a lady should get an order, then they gave her a pinback-version. My humble theory . But I am not an expert in YU-Awards .Best regards Christian
Bryan Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 I understand your legal point of view about Yugoslavia, but I think the "transitional Yugoslavia" (Serbia) had nothing to do with the multiethnic federation that we were used to know. With the break-up of the 6 nations that were recognized under the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, I see more the "transitional Yugoslavia" as Serbia, even if I'm not right.Talking about transition, see why I disagree that post 1991 awards do not belong to the awards of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.Don't you see a small difference. P.S.: I'm sure the Orders of Freedom awarded in 1999 were different from the previous ones. I guess the quality is also not the same, unless they came from unused stocks ...
orden_master Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 The difference in quality of workmanship is obvious, the newer ones are very crude and look almost "unfinished". But it's obvious that the old dies have been used. Regarding the orders of freedom I can say that their quality was perfect and that they were perfectly made not by the governmental institution but from a private jewelery manufactury in Belgrade. One of the older items was borrowed and used as a template. regardsMilanI understand your legal point of view about Yugoslavia, but I think the "transitional Yugoslavia" (Serbia) had nothing to do with the multiethnic federation that we were used to know. With the break-up of the 6 nations that were recognized under the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, I see more the "transitional Yugoslavia" as Serbia, even if I'm not right.Talking about transition, see why I disagree that post 1991 awards do not belong to the awards of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.Don't you see a small difference. P.S.: I'm sure the Orders of Freedom awarded in 1999 were different from the previous ones. I guess the quality is also not the same, unless they came from unused stocks ...
Christian Zulus Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 To be - or not to be ...Gentlemen,we have the phaleristic Yugoslavia from 1943 to 1991 we all know, collect and appreciate.We have a new (old) state at the Westbalkans from october 2000 (= the Soros, CIA & BND "Operetta-Putsch" ), which was first called "Yugoslavia", then "Union of Serbia and Montenegro - SCG" and now "Republic Serbia", with their own orders and medals in an traditional "Royal Style".What had been the phaleristic reality in the years between 1991 and 2000? On one side they government used 1:1 high-end "copies" of top YU-Awards, i.e., as Milan pointed out with the two "Freedoms" to the two generals, who fought 1999 against the NATO.On the other side they made, as Bryan showed to us, they confered very cheap made and bad done copies (but using old dies!) of YU-Awards - no Red Star, but the Serbian Double Eagle in the center.What represents the "Order of Freedom", which got General Pavkovic 1999 from Slobodan Milosevic ? It looks the same, like Tito's "Freedom".I would like to call the YU-Awards of the period 1991 to 2000 "transitional" and would keep them in our - might be - GMIC-Yugoslavia-section and not transfer them to some "non-communist" sections at GMIC. Gentlemen, what is your opinion about my proposal ?Best regards Christian
Bryan Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 I would like to call the YU-Awards of the period 1991 to 2000 "transitional" and would keep them in our - might be - GMIC-Yugoslavia-section and not transfer them to some "non-communist" sections at GMIC.I have no problem with that. The thoughest thing will be to find collectors from this period on the forum. This might be harder.
Christian Zulus Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 I have no problem with that. The thoughest thing will be to find collectors from this period on the forum. This might be harder. Dear Bryan,many thanks for your support .If the price would be a bargain, I will collect them - just to "round up" the genuine YU-Awards and to show the decline of YU-Awards after 1991.At least I want to buy "Order of Freedom" from Gen. Pavkovic, if I might make a fortune in the coming time .Best regards ChristianBTW: Yugoslavia has more replies than Cuba and almost as much as Albania, but still not a GMIC-section by it's own .
Bryan Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Yeah! so after the Hungarian section, why not a Yugoslavian section. Who will be our host?
Hauptmann Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Hi all,Well, after talking with Vic and Christian... doing some research on all the great posts ya'll have made re: Yugoslavian awards I decided I'd test the waters and give it a try. So with the excellent assistance of Vic I've managed to acquire my first Order, although it'll probably be a while as it's going with a shipment to Vic and then he'll be sending it to me with another package he's put together for me. Thanks Vic on all counts!!!! Well, without further ado, here's my latest acquisition and my introduction to Yugoslavian awards:Order of Labor 3rd ClassIt's the sellers pic so I'll do more when it arrives. It comes cased as pictured... hoping it comes with the ribbon bar as well. Vic confirmed that it is a pin back so hoping it's the verical type like on German awards and not the horizontal one that looks like a funky pitch fork. I guess having been in Imperial and TR German for so long I just love those horizontal pins, even though I know those are the later pieces. So there you have it... I'm in for a penny, in for a pound as they say. Sure hope I can find some more I like at prices I can afford. When I do ya'll will be the first to know... well, perhaps outside of Vic if he manages to locate them for me. And here's hoping we get a separate Yugoslav section soon too! Dan
Christian Zulus Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Dear Dan,great and beautiful piece .... and welcome to the Yugo-community .The ribbon bar(s) are usually in the box. The miniature you have to get extra - they can be "rather" expensive in comparison to the order, but from the right source, you might get it for a few dollars .I like the design of the the "Orden Rada" 3cl & 2cl: Pure, simple & typical. The 1st class of that order is a little bit "kitsch".Dan, try to get a "Partisan Star 3cl", as long as they sell for less than USD 100,-, if you look around at the market. An item from Soviet production: Enamel is much better! For me, the "Partisan Star" is the most typical (and most famous) of all YU-Awards : http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=15929Best regards Christian
Christian Zulus Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Yeah! so after the Hungarian section, why not a Yugoslavian section. Who will be our host? Dear Bryan,our Serbian friend Milan "Orden Master" from Switzerland would be a perfect choice for the host, because he has the knowledge about the topic, is a Serbian native speaker and - despite the fact he switched over to royal YU-Awards - he owned a comprehensive collection of (nearly all!) YU-Awards from the Tito-Era.Best regards Christian
Hauptmann Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Dear Dan,great and beautiful piece... and welcome to the Yugo-communityThe ribbon bar(s) are usually in the box. The miniature you have to get extra - they can be "rather" expensive in comparison to the order, but from the right source, you might get it for a few dollars .I like the design of the the "Orden Rada" 3cl & 2cl: Pure, simple & typical. The 1st class of that order is a little bit "kitsch".Dan, try to get a "Partisan Star 3cl", as long as they sell for less than USD 100,-, if you look around at the market. An item from Soviet production: Enamel is much better! For me, the "Partisan Star" is the most typical (and most famous) of all YU-Awardshttp://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=15929Best regards ChristianHi Christian,Many thanks!!!! Can't wait to see it in person as I've only seen Yugo awards in books and online. Vic says they're very heavy which is one thing that attracted me to trying them out. I like heavy well made awards.Keeping my fingers crossed that it's complete with the ribbon bars... but if not how hard are they to find separately? I may have a line on a mini but I'll have to see how the $$'s stand right now to see if I can manage it. But sure would be nice to be able to add that to the set.And I agree... I find the 3rds to be the nicest in this set of Orders with the seconds next in line, although I did see one posted that was about neck n' neck with the 3rd in my eyes. I think it has to do with the quality of the gold plating in the center. And I also find the 1st class to be a bit "over the edge" shall we say. Kitsh was precisely the word I was originally going to use so good to know you feel the same on that one. Definitely will try to find a nice Partisan Star... I really do like them! Thanks for the warm welcome and the compliments on the new addition!!!! Dan
order_of_victory Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Hi Dan,You are creeping in to all parts of the Forum I hope its get here soon While sorting out this I aslo bought my self one and medal for national merit Order of Victroy
Christian Zulus Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 A hughe, heavy and well made YU-OrderDear Dan,if you are really looking for big & heavy stuff (vertical pin for 100 % !), then look out for the "Order of Yugoslavian People's Army" 3cl or 2cl.On my scan you can see, how big these two beasts really are in comparison to a "Partisan Star": http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtop...st&p=157108 .For the gold plated 2nd class it is important to look for a genuine silver example - it's simply heavier .Among the more common YU-Orders I regard the "People's Army" - beside the "Partisan Star" as the most beautiful and most classic design. Just look at the 3 dudes at center: They really look heavy - specially the guy with the massive hammer .The golden 2nd class has been confered only 9.137 times and the silver 3rd class 45.384 times. So, these are rather moderate numbers.Prices & market situation in the USA:One year ago a 2nd class sold at e-bay for USD 158,-.Some time ago the great dealer Alexei http://pw1.netcom.com/~merezhko/militaria.html sold a boxed 3rd class for USD 65,- and a boxed 2nd class USD 120,-. These are the scans of the two "People's Army" Alexei sold:"People's Army" seems to be a little bit rare now .Maybe contact our "Orden Master" Milan for getting the items for a rather moderate price.Best regards ChristianBTW: Igor asks USD 25,- for a Labour-3cl-Mini: http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=3816 .
Piramida Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 (edited) Here is a nice Order of the Republic 1st class with 5 torches Edited March 21, 2007 by Piramida
Christian Zulus Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Dear Ivan,fantastic piece in an icredible beautyful presentation box .How much did you pay for the order?Best regards ChristianBTW: Could you give us a small overview about the market & price situation for YU-Awards now in Belgrade - many thanks in advance .
Bryan Posted March 21, 2007 Posted March 21, 2007 Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section, Yugoslavian section ... Propaganda!
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