Imperial fakes

[redeagleorder]

Really? Don't wartime awards always come before peace time awards, regardless of the state? And would it be possible for a Prussian to receive an Oldenburg/Mecklenburg award yet not receive recognition from Prussia itself (I know it also depends on the regiment, but still!)?

Regards,

Matthew

[saschaw]

That's the problem with precedence: different "rules". Prussians often wore any "foreign" stuff behind the Prussians. You'll e.g. find Prussian officers' and general's WW1 era bars with even the centenary medal before beautiful other German states' orders, regardless if they have swords or not. And you'll also find bars that follow "war awards before peace time awards". And then, you'll find bars that have absolutely no precedence.

That's why I'm not giving much into that.

[Sergio]

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Bayern-3er-Ordensspange-MVO-/170872727169?pt=Militaria&hash=item27c8cee681#ht_500wt_1169

[Dave Danner]

That's the problem with precedence: different "rules". Prussians often wore any "foreign" stuff behind the Prussians. You'll e.g. find Prussian officers' and general's WW1 era bars with even the centenary medal before beautiful other German states' orders, regardless if they have swords or not. And you'll also find bars that follow "war awards before peace time awards". And then, you'll find bars that have absolutely no precedence.

That's why I'm not giving much into that.

As Sascha notes, Prussian rules put all Prussian awards, even peacetime ones, ahead of other German states, and then foreign countries (with a few exceptions). From the Guidebook for Reich, State and Community Officials (Rathgeber für Reichs-, Staats u. Kommunalbeamte), published in 1901, here is a Prussian order of precedence after the introduction of the Centenary Medal.

[Dave Danner]

Here are the regulations for the Grand Ducal Mecklenburg contingent, decreed in 1898. They are rather different. After the Iron Cross come Mecklenburg orders and decorations, then Prussian orders and decorations. Then come other German states' and foreign countries' war decorations, and then their peacetime orders and decorations. Then campaign, commemorative and service medals, in the same order: Mecklenburg, Prussia, other German states, and foreign countries.

[Chris Boonzaier]

http://www.ebay.de/i...1#ht_500wt_1169

ahhh... I saw that one for sale...

[avadski]

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Bayrische-Ordensspange-Top-Stuck-Original-aus-der-Zeit-sehr-guter-Zustand-/280913818351?pt=Militaria&hash=item4167c4b2ef

...the MVK once had the swords...another up(down)grade...

[Sergio]

Hello Gents,

this medal bar was sold on eBay.de by our "favourite" seller "sammler-arsenal" in September.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/180966756307?nma=true&si=ibEIetEcvwUPgSTeMZzKJH7EyqI%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true#ht_2766wt_1037

Despite bad reputation of the seller, the medal bar look's like quite original (at least I don't see obvious signs of a fake here).

[Sergio]

Hello Gents,

this medal bar was sold on eBay.de by our "favourite" seller "sammler-arsenal" in September.

http://www.ebay.de/i...#ht_2766wt_1037

Despite bad reputation of the seller, the medal bar look's like quite original (at least I don't see obvious signs of a fake here).

Edited October 20, 2012 by Sergio

[Sergio]

This Medal bar will be sold on eBay.de tonight. The seller is "luge1952".

http://www.ebay.de/itm/221139798820?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649#ht_500wt_1287

The bar is the same that I’ve showed above, but both awards were replaced. Besides, the back side of the medal bar was sewn anew. Be careful!

[redeagleorder]

Can't think why the price has gone up so much, the Reuss verdienstmedaille is not in exactly the best of conditions...

[filfoster]

This is a wonderful thread to read and a good service to collectors. I seek good copies of Imperial and Third Reich medals and decorations, particularly Orders, because I use them to embellish replica uniform ensembles. It would be prohibitive to buy, even if I could find them. originals just to fill loops. I make ribbon bars and medal bars, using what I can find. Fortunately, many good decorations have been copied and are sold as such. There is a legitimate market for good copies. It is a shame that crooks cannot leave well enough alone.

The examples shown above show how well some of these things can be made. My own work will never trouble serious collectors but will happily satisfy an empty uniform front.

Edited November 28, 2012 by filfoster

[Sergio]

Another fake from "sammler-arsenal"

http://www.ebay.de/itm/4er-Ordenspange-eines-Balkankampfers-/181064210270?pt=Militaria&hash=item2a2844975e#ht_3780wt_1037

Before and after "upgrade" :

[Poulton Palmer]

Gents,

thanks for your very clever and thoughtfull observations!! The last bar I have seen on german ebay and I thought it was "strange". The kind of sellers who are willingly "rebuilding" these spanges, just to earn a few bucks more: I have none respect whatsoever for them: flog them I would say (I would be glad to be of assistance).

MfG,

Poulton

[redeagleorder]

Making fake bars to fool people already angers me. But spoiling real and original bars of men who earned them to make a few more bucks....

[spolei]

I believe this medal bar to be a fake, based on the gold baden merit medal and the bavaria cross, which has the belt buckle fully enamelled. Any opinions?

Matthew

Hello,

the bavarian MVK 2. class crown and swords is manufactuerd bei Godet for private trading.

Godet produced this decorations since the first worldwar, but that are no official decorations.

Regards Andreas

[elbavaro]

The Bavarian MVK 2nd class with crown and swords seems OK to me. Could be manufactured in the 1930s by Godet. But to be 100% sure, we should se the back. No clue about the Baden medal.

Edited February 2, 2013 by elbavaro

[saschaw]

Before and after "upgrade" :

Reminds me to...

http://www.ebay.de/itm/181075720675

[Alex K]

This one fooled me, Meck Schwerin, I actually bought a replacement ribbon!!

[saschaw]

Nonsense combination...

http://www.ebay.de/itm/121072829384

[saschaw]

This is not (even) a fake... it's worse. But offered as real...

http://www.ebay.de/itm/251239291897

Here are probably some fakes again: http://www.ebay.de/sch/orehilas321/m.html

And maybe here, too? http://www.ebay.de/sch/raritaetensammlerclub/m.html

Edited March 4, 2013 by saschaw

[Alex K]

I have to ask the obviously stupid question (For those in the know) how can you tell?, they beat the stuffing out of me, and is part of my collecting field.

Alex K

[redeagleorder]

These two sellers are well-known fake sellers. For an example, the verdun, argonne, champagne and somme veteran crosses offered by orehilas have thick numbers in the middle, nearly touching the name of the cross. Originals do not have such wavy lines.

[redeagleorder]

Been on evilbay for an hour and already up to 90 euro his other bars don't look much better

[saschaw]

That's one that used to come from "the club"...

Been on evilbay for an hour and already up to 90 euro his other bars don't look much better