EK 1914 1813 EK2 grouping.

[VtwinVince]

Right. Gordon, that is a fabulous group, any chance of determining ownership?

[Gordon Williamson]

Right. Gordon, that is a fabulous group, any chance of determining ownership?

Apparently yes, the seller thinks there is a very good chance of getting a name as the group came from the family. Just a case of verifying which branch of the family etc.

[Daniel Murphy]

Gordon,

I have to say that is a fantastic, rare group and as you say, the EK itself may be a first for construction technique. While the joints on the beading are very visible, I cannot see any joints on the outer corners of the frame itself. Since the beading is soldered onto both sides, I also think we have a new method of constuction here, and it would predate anything I have seen yet except the first riveted pattern. It is very possible that this piece was made in 1813. It is an amazing look at the manufacturing process of the first EK's. If you look at page 23 in "The Iron Time", it shows the different stages of construction of the 1813 EK 2. I would say yours fits in between Figure 1 and Figure 2. It looks like the outer frame was sawn from one thick sheet of silver and on the inside, cut out so the core will fit inside the opening. The beading was then cast or struck separate and soldered on to hold the core inside the outer frame. I may be wrong, but does anyone else see this possibility? Gordon, can you give us some photos of the extreme outer corners of the flat part of the frame? Do you see any joints at all on the corners?

Dan Murphy

Edited November 30, 2005 by Daniel Murphy

[Gordon Williamson]

Dan,

On closer inspection, you are absolutely right. Whereas the reverse beading is obviously made from separate pieces soldered to the flat outer flange, the obverse beading looked to be part and parcel of the frame, but I have found one corner where I can see a tiny gap under the beading. So, it looks like we have a single piece flat "flange" cut as you say from a single sheet of metal, and a multi-part cast beaded inner frame. Looks like the beaded frame each side may be made from as many as eight parts, all the joins being at the outer "corners". Some of the joins are well filled in with solder, others are very obvious.

I won't have a decent camera available until the weekend, but I will take some oblique shots then that will show the construction much better.

[joe campbell]

simply amazing!!

and wonderful.

i look forward to seeing more of this.

joe

[Jim Baker]

OK, if I understand what you're saying, the beading alone is what secures the core inside the frame? And the beading is sectioned? Would the beading be more of a formed wire, or formed from a flat piece of stock??

Sorry, these are completely new to me.

[Gordon Williamson]

OK, if I understand what you're saying, the beading alone is what secures the core inside the frame? And the beading is sectioned? Would the beading be more of a formed wire, or formed from a flat piece of stock??

Sorry, these are completely new to me.

Jim,

Exactly right, the soldered-on beading is what keeps the core in place. These segments are I think, as Dan suggested, castings.

[Daniel Murphy]

Sorry, these are completely new to me.

Panzerman,

I think this one is completely new to all of us. A new "missing link" if you will, to the various construction methods tried and eventually abandoned in the maufacture of these pieces. No one had tried to make an award like this before, it was all trial and error. It seems simple to us now, but you can bet there was a lot of frustration, beating heads against the wall, gnashing of teeth, etc. before they perfected the process. You had the King of Prussia awarding these in number to officers and men, and then he was breathing down your neck wanting to know why you were taking so long to make them. Can you imagine how long it took to make just one like this? Frame, core, 16 pieces of beading, and two rings. 20 pieces in all. I would not want to have to make it, "You want it like that? 20 pieces? I quit".

Dan Murphy

[Jim Baker]

Incredible. I would love to just hold one of these. Just think of the history this little cross has seen. Almost two hundred years.

Man, I love the history part of this hobby.

[Ramblinfarms]

What a great EK, and worthy of some real research. thank you for sharing it with all of us, and expanding our knowledge on these early pieces. I can't wait for the next installment!

[Gordon Williamson]

Decent camera to hand now. Hopefully this shot will show much more clearly how the outer flange is cut from a single piece as Dan correctly surmised-no hairline seam to indicate two halves. Also quite clear is the separate cast beaded inner frame.

[joe campbell]

that picture certainly helps.

very interesting to see, but it also prompts

a "this isn't all that stable a configuration

for a cross" from me... that, and the

labor- intensive process to make it

would certainly explain why it was not seen

regularly.

great thread!

joe

[Flak88]

I just got back from Glasgow and had a wonderful time meeting with Gordon. When he took this lovely group out I was floored! The EK2 is stunning, and the Red Eagle Order was just gorgeous - truly a special piece. The frame construction is as Gordon said and the WD40 made a huge difference!

At any rate, just superb and Gordon, thanks again for showing me. To hold it is to truly experience it. And the smell was real too. Just reaked of history!

Here is mine, just because:

[Stogieman]

I've only been fortunate enough to have had one of these historic little gems. This one is much later though, probably ca. 1825-40 when they were finally filling the "grandfathered" crosses. Now living somewhere in Tejas.

[Bob Hunter]

Congratulations on those unique new additions to your collection.

[gregM]

Gordon,

That is truely a unique cross and I would love to see a close up of the Red Eagle.

The detail looks amazing.

Thanks for sharing.

Here is my example of a 1813. Detlev estimated it to be a 1815 issue piece.

Greg[attachmentid=19149]

Edited December 15, 2005 by gregM

[Gordon Williamson]

Beautiful piece Greg, thanks for sharing !

You can find close ups of the Red Eagle in this thread

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3869

[Sal Williams]

Really interesting! Gordon, I suspect if this method was used for even a small amount of time that the ribbed beading wire was run through a hand cranked press that flattened the bachside and indented the ribbs in at the same time rather than was cast.

Best, Sal

[kunsho]

Here comes another one with "handmade" verge of the ribbed wire... In my opinion one of the very early ones...

Best regards

Matthias

[kunsho]

Frame detail

[kunsho]

..and the reverse (look at the ribbed wire at the lower side of the cross - normally "made in germany" looks better :-)...

[Stefan]

Very nice group Gordon! :-)

Sk?l,

Stefan

[Daniel Murphy]

Matthias,

That may not be the best EK in terms of workmanship, but it is a historical beauty in it's own right as it tells it's own story. The king was awarding these in quantities before he ever got them "in hand" and the makers were constantly being told to hurry up and make more. Since these were made up from over 20 pieces, trying to do a rush job on them inevitably led to what we see here. Still, I can only dream of having one such as this.

Dan Murphy

[notned]

Gordon,

Awesome group! thanks for sharing!

Re the rust...i seem to remember that there is a special blackening stuff you can buy ..it treats and kills the rust and at the same time blackens the metal...cannot for the life of me remember the name of the stuff...but i have seen the results of it on various metals and it works!

Might just be the thing for arresting the rust on these treasures...with out any damage...

will find out and keep you posted..

Regards

Paul

[Stogieman]

Greetings Matthias. That is one old and wonderful cross. Bought as a loose piece? Or maybe come with a nice campaign medal?!