order_of_victory Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 (edited) Order of Patriotic War T3.1Order of Victory Edited July 15, 2006 by order_of_victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 As far as I know, Russians did never stich their orders to uniform. And even if they did, why make this complicated pin? It would be much easier just to make two soldered metal rings on the reverse to attach threads to them.It was done this way to be able to remove and reattach the order to the uniform. If you stitch it to the uniforum with two metal rings, it has to stay there, but if you stick it through the loops, its removable, if the uniform has to be cleaned, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 It was done this way to be able to remove and reattach the order to the uniform. If you stitch it to the uniforum with two metal rings, it has to stay there, but if you stick it through the loops, its removable, if the uniform has to be cleaned, for example.Oh, now I see... But still, as far as I know Russians did not use this type of attachment. For every day uniform they used ribbon bars and for parade uniform they used... look at the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyFCO Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Oh, now I see... But still, as far as I know Russians did not use this type of attachment. For every day uniform they used ribbon bars and for parade uniform they used... look at the picture But at the same time, we haven't seen every kind of uniform that was made, either. If only 50 people bought these awards and used the award loops out of a possible... what... 75 million uniforms, what's the chance that one of the 20 or 30 of us have seen one? Not likely! Russian generals frequently sewed loops on their VP uniforms in order to slide the pin of their medal bar into, so why wouldn't others sew loops for their screwback awards? Loops are a lot easier than making a permanent gaping hole in the uniform, and are easier than making the wierd backing things that a lot of guys made for their awards (see Andrew's photo.) If someone was stationed in E. Germany, there were plenty of tailors that could put on loops in minutes for very little cost, since it was so common in the German army. Now I also like Andrew's idea of it being a foreign manufactured variant of the 1985 OGPW, since they look to date from about the same time period. I think that's a possibility, but I am personally a little surprised that the Mint would allow that to have happened. On another note... Andrew, do you have the name of the officer in your photo? He looks VERY familiar - has his group been offered for sale before???Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Dave, here is a back side of the picture. His name is Sorin Zavel Abramovich (Сорин Завель Абрамович). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris S Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 What is interesting is the Pat War he is wearing...on a hanger in 1961!!!!Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 One "issue" which has NOT been addressed is...just because it is MARKED "935" (and this was common in Weimar era German awards as the snobbish British sterling standard)...doesn't mean it really IS 935 silver.And if the "SILVER" mark is phony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I'm pretty surprised at the life this thread has taken on. An interesting discussion for sure. Depite my "(Truly) Evil Twin's?" paranoia, I have yet to see a fake incused silver mark of German origin. I believe what you have here is a privately made, in Germany OPW for someone who wanted it. probably ca 1950-60. That would be my guess, for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 Well the item sold at $92.00, unfortunatly I did not get it Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 In the end, I elected to pass. Not really willing to put money into "oddities" at this point. I was also surprised where his 20-Year Red Army Medal went.... without anyone who actually knew what they were doing bidding on it.... Again, poor photographs hindered my interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
order_of_victory Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 I did not see his 20-Year Red Army Medal, but I would be very carefull buying one of those off ebay Order of Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidS Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 I purchased this example a couple of years ago in Scotland, but it had previously been bought in Azerbaijan. The Azeri seller said that in his opinion it was made by a jeweller around 1985. Photo of pin to follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidS Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 .. and the pin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Wow!! They are spreading around!!! This is a third observed order. Thanks for sharing pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Wow!! They are spreading around!!! This is a third observed order. And, maybe, their very recent spread is part of the answer to what they are? Especially as they seem to sell when they come forward?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Yes, again, I'm quite suspicious about them and their recent presence on the market... Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwh Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 To me it looks like a (Jewelers?) remake of a 1985 issue - probably - as somebody earlier remarked - for theatrical purposes.And since 1985 issue specimens only cost the odd dollar today this would be the most economical way to produce an easily detachable copy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) Yes, again, I'm quite suspicious about them and their recent presence on the market... Ch.Christofe, what do you mean by "recent presence on the market"? The first time when this GPW type was observed was five years ago. Edited August 25, 2006 by Mondvor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christophe Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (...) It first appeared on the market about 5 years ago and we had a long discussion with Alex Filer and other fellow collectors about what it actually was... But we didn't come to any conclusion...Andrew,Sorry. I misread this previous post, and thought they were appearing only recently.What seems to be sure is that instead of staying "confidential", they now become more frequent on the market. Curious...Ch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondvor Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Andrew,Sorry. I misread this previous post, and thought they were appearing only recently.What seems to be sure is that instead of staying "confidential", they now become more frequent on the market. Curious...Ch.I don't know the explanation. But it could be one thing... Of course you know that during last years actual prices for Soviet awards increased greatly. So many American collectors selling out their collections because of two reasons. First reason - they made a great investment and can get three or four times more then they spent buying the orders seven or eight years ago. Second reason - they can not afford any new purchases of Soviet staff. When Red Star Mondvor was 200 USD it was OK, but now it's more than 1000 USD. And if you consider Suvorov or Kutuzov, the distance will be even more dramatic.So they all put their collections for sale. That's why it's so many new items appeared recently. Just check how many new amazing things has Moiseev on his web site... But the prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/soviet-...st-class-2.htmlI won the ebay auction which triggered the GMIC thread. Now, on the other forum another such case has been found :jumping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) Gentlemen and Ladies:These may well be Austria or German made Red Stars that were made for the Collectors market in the 1970s and 1980s. Souval had these in his window and catalog and they were for sale in UK magazines as collectors copies in the 1970s. Real pieces were difficult to obtain and very,very expensive in those days.Souval also made these as 'wearing copies" (and souvenirs) for the Allied armies in Austria until the Allies withdrew their forces. He mentioned at one point he had a special license to make Soviet awards locally for Soviet troops.Stern did an article in May 1983 about Souval and illustrated a medal just like this in it.The pin and overall "look" appear german to me-not unlike 1957 versions of Ostvolk awards. Edited October 27, 2008 by Ulsterman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppe864 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I am pretty sure that Souval is the answer. Got this one when I bought and old collection with Souval awards and Third Reich Stuff, the man bought stuff in germany in 1952. Mine is marked 800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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