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About Komtur

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  1. The duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha gave his house order liberally to his former people even after 1918. Therefore it´s quite possible, that a servant or someone similar later in a lower middle-sized class position got the knight 2nd class.
  2. The document confirms my suspicion, when an why the reclaim of orders stopped. The investigations were difficult and often without success. It was stopped to disburden the administration (Um die Verwaltung ... zu entlasten ...).
  3. The official decision was in 1913 (see document 1 in #8). But as written in this document too, there was a long time before without an offical instruction a custom, to left the Iron Crosses of 1870 by request with the family: ... wie sie für das Eiserne Kreuz wegen der Zurückbehaltung durch die Hinterbliebenen bereits in Übung ist. An example for this custom exercised in 1894 (!) are the documents 3/4/5 and the medal bar of Dr. König in #8. These show the same procedure as in your document of 1910.
  4. In the end it was a question of effort and profit. It seems the administrative effort, to find out, who of the deceased person got the relevant medals or orders decades before and then force the famliy to return these decoration, wasn´t economically efficient. This was especially valid for the severe later war years. Then the administration simply had other problems.
  5. The so called Abwicklungsstelle der früheren General-Ordenskommission took after 1918 also the silver Red Eagle Order 4th class back. It seems, after 1938 they were mainly interested in gold, even if it was only a small amount, as for the Crown Order 4th classes thin medaillon. Yes, see above. As directed in 1913 by the Prussian King, the bravery awards could be left with the surviving members of the family: Ferner erteile ich der bezüglich vor dem Feinde erworbenen Orden und Ehrenzeichen der General-Ordenskommission die gleiche Erlaubnis, wie sie für das Eiserne Kreuz wegen der Zurückbehaltung durch die Hinterbliebenen bereits in Übung ist. I am quite sure, that similar regulations were determined by the German States as parts of the Weimarian Republic, wich succeeded the former monarchies in the matter of law and right (e.g. Bavaria, Saxony ...), even if I can´t prove it with documents. In case of the Iron Cross it was codified earlier, that by request the medal could be left with the family. The exact date of this regulation I unfortunately do not remember, but I could search for it in the documents. But I can show by the documents for the Iron Cross on the noncombatant ribbon of Dr. König an example, how this was performed by the General-Ordens-Commission.
  6. Indeed it is a silver decoration and v. d. Lippe is mentioned in the list for the knight class of this order. In my opinion this could be a result of confusion in our understanding of the classes or simply an error in the list. It seems for me very unlikely, that he promoted within the order, even if this is not impossible. You can find the list in the mentioned archive of the HEROLD society, where the Klietmann documents are stored. There is also a correspondence between Klietmann and Karl Victor zu Wied from 1949/50 that indicates, that this list origins from this son of the Mbret of Albania Prince Wilhelm Wied. Karl Victor wrote amongst others, that he is quite sure, that this document is incomplete. We can confirm this now by some persons we found out as holders of the order, but missing in this list, e.g. most of the dutch officers. The names and numbers Klietmann publicates are based on this (incomplete) source. Thank you for your interesting information of sources showing other bars with the Albanian Black Eagle Order, from wich the second one I could found in my own library. Unfortunaltely I have no copies of the Ordens-Sammlung sale catalogues to look for the Lt. Czivisch bar.
  7. Medalbar of Major a. D. Adolf von der Lippe (1875-1936)
  8. That is true and was official handling for civil service from the mid 1870ies. This was transferred for personnel in military service in exactly 1904. Regards, Komtur.
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