Stogieman Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 MEZ1 for 1866. Less than 200 awards.... sold on eBay.de
dond Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 I saw that one and was going to bid but wasn't sure it was real. I asked for better pics but never got them...
Chris Boonzaier Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Paulover $1200 US.Thats a steal !!!! but from those photos the medal looks cast !!!!
David Gregory Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Thats a steal !!!! but from those photos the medal looks cast !!!!The 1st class is described as a wearer's copy in the auction, so it may well have been cast.
Chris Boonzaier Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 The 1st class is described as a wearer's copy in the auction, so it may well have been cast.Indeed... a "wearer`s copy" is carte blanche for a lead sinker maker ....
Ed_Haynes Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Indeed... a "wearer`s copy" is carte blanche for a lead sinker maker ....I thought that when eBay admitted to "wearer's copy" that translated as "100% fake"?
Paul R Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 As long as they buyer is happy with what he has Good eyes, Chris.
Stogieman Posted October 22, 2006 Author Posted October 22, 2006 Yes, because a "wearer's copy" of a silver medal would have been made in silver..... Look at the MEZ1, not the MEZ2. How many cast copies have you seen with 150 years of silver patina on them... ?
Paul R Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Now I am confused. Why would someone make a wearers copy? If someone lost the original, could they have applied for a replacement? RegardsPaul
Ed_Haynes Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Me too. So . . . Rick, are you saying this is OK?
Stogieman Posted October 22, 2006 Author Posted October 22, 2006 Well, at least two other people thought so to push the price as high as it went. I had a trade show, so no time to bid myself. I look at this bar and the medals were all sewn in a very long time ago. Construction, materials, ribbon age and folding styles are consistent with pre-1870 bars I have owned, handled and sold.I have only handled one pre-1870 MEZ and the cross looked quite the same as the one on this bar. Look carefully at the photos... I am unaware of anyone casting a copy of the MEZ in silver. The detail to the lines and lettering on the cross sure look right in this photo. Then there's the patina issue. Notice the black everywhere but the highpoints of the cross..... I think there's a high probability that it was real.... then it becomes a gamble because the only way to know for sure would be to have it in-hand.
Ed_Haynes Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Well, at least two other people thought so to push the price as high as it went. I had a trade show, so no time to bid myself. I look at this bar and the medals were all sewn in a very long time ago. Construction, materials, ribbon age and folding styles are consistent with pre-1870 bars I have owned, handled and sold.I have only handled one pre-1870 MEZ and the cross looked quite the same as the one on this bar. Look carefully at the photos... I am unaware of anyone casting a copy of the MEZ in silver. The detail to the lines and lettering on the cross sure look right in this photo. Then there's the patina issue. Notice the black everywhere but the highpoints of the cross..... I think there's a high probability that it was real.... then it becomes a gamble because the only way to know for sure would be to have it in-hand.Thanks, mate. I love learning things . . .
VtwinVince Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Is my eyesight going, or is that not the correct ribbon for the 1866 cross in position 4?
JensF. Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 (edited) The MEZ1 is with 100% a fake and not even a good one. I also don't like the back and the ribbons look like the fake and artificially "browned" ribbons the "Raritaetensammlerclub" usually sells. May the bidder be lucky with it... Edited October 22, 2006 by JensF.
KeithB Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Now I am confused. Why would someone make a wearers copy? If someone lost the original, could they have applied for a replacement? RegardsPaulI have several 2nd class general honor medals and of them is atypical. The medal is thicker, the strike is slightly different, and it is made of something that rusts.I posted it somewhere and I believe Andreas of medalnet.net posted in response that it was in fact a genuine 'wearer's copy' and that they were all made of different materials. Because of this I don't think that the idea of a wearer's copy is totally far fetched.I don't have the experience of some others so I can't really comment on authenticity. But one thing that did stand out to me was the fact that the ribbons in the front of the medal bar have such a dirty, well worn look while the red felt on the back seems to be in perfect condition. I don't know if such a state ever occurs naturally, but it sure would put me off of a medal bar with a combination that might be faked.
Guest Brian von Etzel Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 I would never have bid on this without better photos, I pity the poor buyer... I think the word refund, Erstattung, or any other variation will have little impact.
Wild Card Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Is my eyesight going, or is that not the correct ribbon for the 1866 cross in position 4?A good question, I had the same reaction; but after going back and forth, to my old eyes, I think that it is ok.
saschaw Posted November 4, 2006 Posted November 4, 2006 (edited) Gentlemen, I'm rather sure JensF. made the point. The bar is not genuine at all as well as the MEZ I. class isn't. The same seller sold now this one which I don't like, and the bar has the very same style Another thing he sold was a Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen with a "Jubiläumszahl" which also did not seem to be fine - link to Ebay. Edited July 29, 2023 by saschaw
saschaw Posted November 4, 2006 Posted November 4, 2006 (edited) And a detail of a so called "Spangenstück": Edited July 29, 2023 by saschaw
Stogieman Posted November 4, 2006 Author Posted November 4, 2006 Second bar is a clear copy/fake. The first one I'm still not convinced either way. Given the age it was purpoted to be, I would prefer to have had it in-hand. Remember, even thieves make mistakes....
Chris Boonzaier Posted November 4, 2006 Posted November 4, 2006 I am sceptical about the Patina. I had a silver medal that I silver dipped... a couple of years later it developed an almost black patina, a bit ofa chemical reaction.
Daniel Krause Posted November 4, 2006 Posted November 4, 2006 He,Experts,what is MISSING at the first bar???2x MEZ, one 1864 cross, 1866 cross but where is the 1864 war MEDAL????On the first view a unthinkable combination. That is like a Veteran is wearing a well mounted bar with an EK 1870 and a Centenary medal but "forgot" the 1870 war medal.Best regardsDaniel
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