Anybody else interested in early LS bars?

[David Gregory]

Saxon Landwehrdienstauszeichnung 2. Klasse issued from 1874 to 1913:

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[attachmentid=15073]

[Christophe]

To All,

Very nice, interesting and informative thread!!!! I really discovered something, here.

Bravo.

Ch.

[David Gregory]

When the Prussians replaced their bars with medals and crosses in 1913, the Saxons followed suit and the bar shown above was replaced by a medal according to the statute of 6 September 1913.

The ribbon remained the same as for the Schnalle. The medal was made of copper and seems to be plated. Many owners of the Schnalle purchased the medal and wore it instead.

The shape, size and script is much the same as the Prussian Landwehr service medal.

Although it doesn't really belong in this thread (i.e. it is not a bar), I am posting this example of a single court-mounted medal for the sake of continuity.

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[David Gregory]

The court mount from the back showing the typical Saxon ribbon folding style:

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The back of the medal:

[attachmentid=15078]

Andreas Schulze Ising has a good article on the Saxon service awards on his site at http://www.medalnet.net/.

I am sure I have some award documents for the Prussian bars, but seem to have misplaced them. Does anyone have examples of the award documents for the Saxon bars and medals?

David

[Bob Hunter]

...and the latest from Stogie, Mecklinburg-Schwerin LS.

[Bob Hunter]

and the backside with no visable marking.

Edited December 4, 2005 by Bob Hunter

[Gerd Becker]

just a little addition; a Bavarian fire brigade Schnalle in prinzengr??e on a ribbon bar with the Michael Order 4th class:

Daniel, that is a georgeous little bar

Wild Card, thanks for sharing your treasures. You have posted some awards in the last weeks, which i have seen here the first time in color

Great thread everyone

[Guest Rick Research]

Those brooches are NASTY on the backs!

How about some of the odd PENDANT types, for a little more (sniff) dignified wear on medal bars?

1897 and the IX-- worn on officer style mounting. Hmmm. A good number of technical officers were stuck in the ranks for years and years before they were actually commissioned-- might this be as worn by a Feuerwerksoffizier-- or even a Rossarzt?

[Guest Rick Research]

And a NICELY (sniff) mounted LD2. Since these were NOT supposed to be on a medal bar at all, they usually come last-- though once the M1913s were created, those were worn in front of campaign medals!

The regulations for Prussiaan LD2s were quite complicated. But one of the easiest provisions was that any draftee who had taken part in any action equivalent to a campaign (Feldzug) was immediately entitled to one, upon discharge. So there should actually be a Ghostly Unseen Presence for all those 1866 and 1870/71 groups that are NOT as nicely mounted as this bar.

The millions of servicemen who WOULD have been entitled to one after 1918 is the budgetary reason the Prussian LD2 was never awarded again after June 1914.

[Paul R]

And a NICELY (sniff) mounted LD2. Since these were NOT supposed to be on a medal bar at all, they usually come last-- though once the M1913s were created, those were worn in front of campaign medals!

The regulations for Prussiaan LD2s were quite complicated. But one of the easiest provisions was that any draftee who had taken part in any action equivalent to a campaign (Feldzug) was immediately entitled to one, upon discharge. So there should actually be a Ghostly Unseen Presence for all those 1866 and 1870/71 groups that are NOT as nicely mounted as this bar.

The millions of servicemen who WOULD have been entitled to one after 1918 is the budgetary reason the Prussian LD2 was never awarded again after June 1914.

Beautiful 1870s bars, Ricky! I had no idea!

[westfale]

Here are my ones. The DA for 21 years seems to be the 3rd variation, made 1856-75 by "ZEHN". The DA for 15 years ist made 1875-1894 (4th variation) by "A. Werner & S?hne Berlin", and the DA for nine years was made between 1875 and 1894 also by "ZEHN".

I think these bars are really nice, because they are better made than the DAs made quite before WW1!

westfale

!st one:

Edited June 14, 2007 by westfale

[westfale]

2nd and 3rd:

[westfale]

3rd with document:

[westfale]

I know, this is not a bar like the others, but because i'm missing the Landwehr-decorations a little bit I put this into my post, hope it's not a problem...

So at least the Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung f?r Offiziere for 20 years of service:

Edited June 14, 2007 by westfale

[Guest Rick Research]

Not a bar, but early all right--

Saxony actually had MEDALS when everybody else was using those ICKY rectangular brooches. Sharing a friend's latest find:

Saxon M1874 15 Years Service Medal

1870/71 with 4 nice big bold battle bars

Wilhelm 1 Centenary Medal 1897

[speedytop]

Hi,

here is my document without a degree (Klasse) from 1852:

Regards

Uwe

[Wild Card]

Daniel, that is a georgeous little bar

Wild Card, thanks for sharing your treasures. You have posted some awards in the last weeks, which i have seen here the first time in color

Great thread everyone

Gerd,

I apologize, I did not see your post. Thank you for the compliment.

While we are at it, here are a couple of other W?rttemberg schnalles that we have not seen yet. First is an 1874-1892 1st class decoration for 15 years service. In the case of this issue, the first class was awarded for 15 years service and the 2nd class was awarded for 9 years.

[Wild Card]

Next, we have an 1891-1913 2nd class decoration for 12 years service. Now, the first class is still being awarded for 15 years, but the 2nd class is being awarded for 12.

[David F]

Kev pointed me in the direction of this thread(cheers ) and i thought that you might want to see a picture of one in wear .

This is one of my new postcards

[Kapitular]

If there is still any interest, I can add some rare pieces of my former collection, for example this LS bar from Bremen, only 21 awards.

Kapitular

[Paul R]

If there is still any interest, I can add some rare pieces of my former collection, for example this LS bar from Bremen, only 21 awards.

Kapitular

I have lots of interest. Why only 21 awards of a long service decoration?

[Kapitular]

This decoration was established in 1860 and only awarded for seven years, up to 1867, the year of the military union with Prussia. 25 bars were produced but only 21 awarded.

Kapitular

Here the silver cross for 25 years, produced 30 pieces, awarded all the 30.

[Guest Rick Research]

From the late Tony Colson's collection period evidence that NOT everybody upgraded to the M1913 medals:

Unfortunately this family in J?lich did not write down names, but it is captioned in memory of Sedantag 27.8.70 and the son's being wounded in the Vosges 28.8.14. Papa is still wearing his outdated LD2:

We usually assume if there is no LD2 on the medal bar, it predates the change in designs. Obviously not so. Papa (here looking like Raymond Massey playing John Brown, glint in the eyes and all) could well have kept on wearing his old brooch for another 20 years.

Note that there are no battle bars on the 1870 ribbon, but SOMETHING large and... unidentifiable on the 1897 ribbon.

[saschaw]

From the late Tony Colson's collection period evidence that NOT everybody upgraded to the M1913 medals:

[militaria0815]

Here's my personal favorite - it's a Prussian Fire Service 25 year in the case of issue that is even named. The bar itself is marked QUELLHORST. The best part is that I paid less for this than I would taking my wife out for a steak dinner

Eric, nice item which is in the fitting original case.