Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I picked this bar up about six months ago and I had hoped to find a name to go with it. I know it’s pretty thin but I tried and even bought an extra Rank List to see if it helped. No luck! I am thinking this gentleman was a Zahlmeister in the 8th Infantry Division but I can’t find him. The Saxon medal is gilted silver. Any ideas on where to look?

12F8149A-3966-476B-82AA-D9A5B761F022.jpeg

8708DC46-4146-4BAB-990E-19E288217A25.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most likely an official and not in ranklists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice one!

I would bet on Zahlmeister Dröder from IR 63.

He was still in the Reichsheer after WW1 as Oberzahlmeister.

He had additional a Ernestinian duchies long service award which was replaced by the Wehrmacht 25.

Only thing what bothers me in that; he had as well an Altenburg Jubilee Medal,  which is not shown at the bar.

 

Best,

Daniel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very nice and well-made medal bar. 

I have a similiar "Zahlmeister" type of ribbon bar from Anhalt. Any chance for an ID here?

Best regards

Nicolas

IMG_20190305_094820.jpg

IMG_20190305_094836.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Daniel, 

How did you find this so fast? I have spent hours and nothing? I must be missing a key piece of research material or I just need more experience.

Thanks for the help and all of the comments. This is not a typical bar for my collection as I usually buy Imperial only bars but this one really caught my attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My late friend Rick would call us "wizards" 🙂

Nicolas,  in this case, if it it a Zahlmeister as well, I bet on Gustav Schöne from IR 93.

born 1874, between the wars civil Official, in 1934 Verwaltungsoberinspektor a.D.

Maybe he was recalled for service to rejoin the Wehrmacht...

In contrary to active Officers, these Officials did easily serve until their high 60ies.

 

Best,

Daniel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Sounds good, danke dir Daniel!

It is interesting to see that most of these officials ended up in fairly low ranks in comparison to their sometimes very long serving time.

 

Edited by Nicolas7507

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 06/10/2019 at 12:29, CRBeery said:

How did you find this so fast? I have spent hours and nothing? I must be missing a key piece of research material or I just need more experience.

 

23 hours ago, Daniel Krause said:

My late friend Rick would call us "wizards" 🙂

Wow... a wizard.  I've never really met a wizard before.

Here's a little insight on why I recently joined this forum.  For many years, I've used Google to look for answers to questions I've had about various items in my collection.  Almost every time, links to threads in this forum appeared at the top of my search-results.  

The threads not only provided answers, they provided an explanation about the methodology and reference material utilized in arriving at those answers, particularly when other members expressed an interest in learning. 

One member's name stands out in my mind as somebody who not only came-up with the answers to difficult questions, but also made it a point to explain the process by which he arrived at those answers... Rick Researcher.  His posts are highly educational for those desiring to learn and become self-reliant doing their own research.   

Back to the subject of this thread.  We have a member who posted his medal bar and gave an impressive "good-old college try" to come-up with a name, even purchasing a book in the process.  Some people here are content being spoon-fed quick answers... in this case, the name of the bar's owner.  But it seems that Mr. Beery - admirably - also wants to learn about the process by which the name was discovered, presumably to help him understand how to approach similar research in the future.

So, what kind of useful answer is he given?  "We are wizards."  Frankly, I don't recall this fellow Rick ever giving a self-adulatory response like "We are wizards" when somebody expressed a desire to learn.  Oh well... you know what they say:  A good magician never reveals his secrets.  

        

Edited by FAR 32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FAR 32,

Thank you for your nice words 🙂

over the last 20 years I put together dates and names for ten thousands of decorated people in WW1 and after.

That required for example reading over 500 regimental histories, more that 150 regimental officers lists, thousands of pages in newspapers and putting together dozends of award rolls into some bigger files.

For the Prussian Army I can answer questions for about 50.000 noticeable decorated Officers, Doctors and Officials.

But all together, I can - as seen - sometimes give an answer, but I can not in every case say where every bit of info came from.

My short sentence about "wizards" was a joke, like my friend Rick quite often called us. I did not intend to insult somebody.

 

Best, 

Daniel 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@CRBeery

A bit more, according to Siekmanns Taschenkalender für Beamte der Militärverwaltung, Dröder was born in 1871, so turned the retirement age of 65 in 1936, just perfect to receive the fresh established Wehrmacht long service award.

If he would still be active in 1939, he would have received the 40 years oaks.

 

Best,

Daniel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

P.S. forgot to mention.

I did my homework on that bar already a while ago, as I still owned his ribbon bar 🙂

20191007_234203.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where is that bar now??? I would love to bring it into my collection!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know where the bar came from. It was a longer time on his page.

I did not buy it, because i wasn`t sure about the finish of the HSVM. 

My stomach says: Zahlmeister guy (paymaster)

I did a research on that bar  - for 95 % - i would say it was  "Mesecke"  - Art. Dep. Insp. Berlin - born 1874 (as i still can ID my handwritten notes...)

The problem is, that also Siekmann doesn`t show all "lower" decorations as many other sources.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where was this for sale at? I bought it from a small US dealer. Did it have the ribbon bar with it?

Thanks for a second name. This has turned out to be very interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,  i saw it at Zeige.

I don`t want to say, that the medal could be fake - i did not like the finish but may be i am wrong with it.

The ribbon bar was also sold at Zeige with some others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FAR 32

You did not know Rick, but he did have a great sense of humor. He spent months translating award rolls and relished the research. The results of his working, Daniel Krause and many others is used to make these identifications. Rick was, in some way a wizard. He had a fantastic memory and was very dedicated to what he did. I miss him very much as he was a close friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/10/2019 at 12:46, Daniel Krause said:

My late friend Rick would call us "wizards" 🙂

Nicolas,  in this case, if it it a Zahlmeister as well, I bet on Gustav Schöne from IR 93.

born 1874, between the wars civil Official, in 1934 Verwaltungsoberinspektor a.D.

Maybe he was recalled for service to rejoin the Wehrmacht...

In contrary to active Officers, these Officials did easily serve until their high 60ies.

 

Best,

Daniel

Gustav Schöne, born 29.6.1874 in Calbe (Saale), received the Friedrichkreuz on 5.5.1915 as a Zahlmeister in Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 66.

I have three other Zahlmeister-types with the Friedrichkreuz and the Prussian Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen and old enough for a Centenary, but I don't have anything further on them after World War I. Maybe Daniel has more information. 

• Henzgen, Karl, *8.8.1868 in Mehringen, Bernburg; Zahlm., von d. Train-Abt. Nr. 8, Sanitäts-Komp., Armee-Abteilung v. Strantz.
• Kolbe, Fritz, *10.12.1870 in Harzgerode; Zahlm., vom Inf.-Regt. Nr. 165, I./Landw.-Inf.-Regt. Nr. 36.
• Rößler, Max, *26.12.1872 in Bernburg; Zahlm., 4.Garde-Regt. zu Fuß.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good topic, great help (which is what we are about) and great bar!

I miss Rick too, the world is a smaller place without him in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/10/2019 at 07:43, Paul C said:

FAR 32

You did not know Rick, but he did have a great sense of humor. He spent months translating award rolls and relished the research. The results of his working, Daniel Krause and many others is used to make these identifications. Rick was, in some way a wizard. He had a fantastic memory and was very dedicated to what he did. I miss him very much as he was a close friend.

Thanks Paul. Many truly great memories.:beer:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to be a good “Wizards and Gnomes” story.

05CA8E19-14A9-4064-A050-DAB35AC3A315.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ve had a few possible candidates for that bar.

I think it is very hard to find that o n e guy for 100 % .

I.m.o. it is a late unnamed Godet bar and made in the late 1930s or early 1940s.

I think, in that time he was Stabszahlmeister or Oberstabszahlmeister. (Intendant) and he finished his service than.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Dave/Daniel :

What about a combination with

-IC non combatant

-prussian war aid cross

-Anhalt Friedrichscross for combatants

-Hamburg Hanseatic cross

-Ehrenkreuz für Kriegsteilnehmer

- LSM XII

Do you have possible candidates ?

I would bet, some kind of MIlitärbeamter in a lower rank.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably not, but show the bar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...