House Order of Hohenzollern - info needed

[Dave Danner]

Bröse is listed as a Reichsbankrat in Berlin in the 1924 Mitgliederverzeichnis of Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr. 20. No biographical information there, but according to the casualty lists, he was born in Kiel.

[Mattyboy]

There was a discussion about a man named Tiede on another forum. This eventually included some questions about the Tiedje who was awarded the HOH3x. A man named Hans Tiedje served in the Fliegertruppe. He was listed as both Lt dR and Lt dL, and was an early recipient of the EK1 (Hamburgischer Correspondent dated 01st March 1915). But I could find no mention of any further awards attributed to him in the Hamburg / Altona newspapers of WW1. 

 

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69322&highlight=tiedje 

[Glenn J]

So, are we looking at two Hohenzollern winners with the surname Tiedje?

 

Leutnant d.L. (6.11.14) Tiedje  (Hans?) (Landwehr Jäger, I Altona) commissioned as such into Etappen-Flugzeugpark 7.

 

and

 

Leutnant d.R. (18.6.15) Walter Tiedje (I Hannover) commissioned into Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 230.

 

Regards

Glenn

[Mattyboy]

Hmm. If Lt dL Hans Tiedje did receive the HOH3x, then it wasn't mentioned in the newspapers or the MWB. It's possible that the man in Kagohl x is actually named Tiede, in which case he is person mentioned in the MWB dated 08/2/1917. But for the moment we can't rule anything out/in....

Edited March 1, 2023 by Mattyboy

[Dave Danner]

There are only two officers with the Tiede/Tiedje name in the official sources. Both are identified as from the Fliegertruppe.

 

• Lt.d.R. Tiede from Feldflieger-Abteilung 73 received the HOH3X on 27.1.1917. It was gazetted in the Staatsanzeiger on 5.2.1917 and in the Militär-Wochenblatt on 8.2.1917.

• Lt.d.R. Tiedje on the staff of Kampfgeschwader 2 der OHL received the HOH3X on 22.01.1918. It was gazetted in the Staatsanzeiger on 1.2.1918 and in the Militär-Wochenblatt on 5.2.1918.

 

The date of publication of the notice in the Hannoverscher Kurier (17.2.1918) would seem to fit the latter, but as you all have noted, Walter's bio shows no connection to the Fliegertruppe.

 

There were three active Leutnants Tiede, 12 Leutnants der Reserve and one Leutnant der Landwehr. There was one Leutnant der Reserve Tiedje and two Leutnants der Landwehr. Leaving aside the active officers, these were:

 

• Tiede, Karl, *23.10.1892 in Wersk; Lt.d.R. (III Berlin) d. GR 4, bei der Schutztruppe für Kamerun eingezogen, 1.6.15 schwer verwundet, in englischer Gefangenschaft; EK1
• Tiede, Felix Gustav Eduard, *25.2.1889 in Danzig, †14.6.1978 in Hamburg; 21.10.14 Lt.d.R. im RIR 61, im IR 175; Architekt in Danzig; EK2, ÖM3K
• Tiede, Fritz, * in Leipzig; 7.11.14 Lt.d.R. (Erfurt) im RIR 82, IR 188, gef. 2.8.1915 bei Schratzmännle
• Tiede, Max, *29.3.1882 in Berlin; 27.1.15 Lt.d.R. (II Berlin) im LIR 48, vermißt 24.2.1915 bei Przasnysz, für † erklärt
• Tiede, Arnold Erdmann Willy, *2.10.1890 in Cottbus; 15.2.15 Lt.d.R. (Cottbus) des 1.GRzF; Stud.jur. an der Universität Rostock; MMV2
• Tiede, Ernst, *16.3.1891 in Johannisburg, Allenstein, gef. 18.5.1918 b. Nouvion; 13.4.16 Lt.d.R. (IV Berlin), zur Zeit bei der Feldflieger-Abteilung 55; Kandidat der Ingenieurwissenschaften an der Technischen Hochschule Charlottenburg; EK1
• Tiede, Fritz, *6.10.1882 in Danbarren, Insterburg; 13.5.16 Lt.d.R. (III Berlin) im Ers./RIR 35
• Tiede, _____, * [?]; 16.12.16 Lt.d.R. (II Trier) des IR 29
• Tiede, Richard, * [?]; 26.2.17 Lt.d.R. (Bremerhaven) der Fußartillerie
• Tiede, Werner Eduard, *28.11.1886 in Berlin, †11.3.1927 ebd.; Mitglied des KFAC beim Stabe einer Kavallerie-Division, 3.5.17 Lt.d.R. (IV Berlin) des Kraftfahr-Bataillons; Fabrikdirektor, zivil. Ballonfahrer, Mitglied des Deutschen Luftfahrer-Verbandes; EK2
• Tiede, Heinrich Otto Thomas Karl, *24.9.1896 in Wismar, †23.12.1946 in Tscherepowez, UdSSR; 17.7.18 Lt.d.R. (Wismar) des FAR 54; Oberfrontführer der Organisation Todt
• Tiede, _____, * [?]; 7.10.18 Lt.d.R. (II Königsberg) des FußAR 17
• Tiede, Georg, * [?]; 5.3.18 Lt.d.L.-Inf. I (Danzig) mit Patent vom 1.5.18

 

• Tiedje, Hans Joachim Albert, *30.10.1884 in Wandsbek, †17.7.1940 in Hamburg; 6.11.14 Lt.d.L.-Jäg. (I Altona) beim Etappen-Flugzeugpark 7, in der (Kgl. Sächs.) FFA 29; SA3bX
• Tiedje, Johannes, *7.10.1879 in Skrydtstrup, Hadersleben, †18.5.1946 in Flensburg; Vor dem 1.WK Pastor in Königsberg, 1.5.15 Kriegsfreiwilliger im UR 6, 31.7.16 Lt.d.L.-Kav. I (Königsberg), 14.2.17 zum Gouvernement Bukarest, 21.5.17 Verpflegungsoffizier bei der Militär-Verwaltung Rumänien, 3.5.18 erkrankt, 17.5.18 beim stellv. XVIII. AK, 1.7.18 Kriegs-Wirtschafts-Offizier beim stellv. XVIII. AK, 9.2.19 entlassen, Ministerialrat im Reichsministerium des Innern, 8.9.45-xx.2.46 Landrat des Kreises Flensburg; EK2, HT, BMO[3]Kr, ÖM3K
• Tiedje, Walter, *13.06.1895 in Hannover, †10.04.1954 in Walsrode; Kriegsfreiwilliger im IR 74, xx.14 z. RIR 230, 18.6.15 Lt.d.R. (I Hannover), xx.16 z. LIR 384, 7.18 z. RIR 32

 

There was a Hans Tiede who was promoted on 1.12.42 to Major d.R.z.V. (Flak) in the Luftwaffe. Given that he was Flak, he might have been the active FußAR 2 officer or the FußAR 17 Lt.d.R. above.

 

Regarding the 1917 award to Lt.d.R. Tiede, Ernst seemed like the most likely candidate, since he's the only one with a known connection to the Fliegertruppe. The death announcement in the 1.6.18 edition of Zentralblatt der Bauverwaltung only mentioned the EK1, but ZBBV death announcements rarely mentioned other awards besides the Iron Cross.

 

Regarding the 1918 award to Lt.d.R. Tiedje, despite the lack of a known connection to Kagohl 2, Walter seems likely, since the other Tiedjes were Lts.d.L., and the Militär-Kabinett and MWB rarely make such a mistake. Hans Tiedje does have the aviation connection, but again was a Landwehr officer. I guess I am more inclined to think the Militär-Kabinett listed the wrong unit than that the Militär-Kabinett, Staatsanzeiger and MWB all got the wrong rank and the Hannoverscher Kurier announced the wrong person. I can't say for certain, though.

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Dave Danner

[webr55]

Koepchen was "Landesassessor beim Landesdirektorium" Hannover.

 

Hannov. Kurier, 14.9.1918

 

 

 

Köstermann was Lehrer in Wehrbeck.

 

Hannov. Kurier, 16.8.1918

 

 

 

We had him in this thread already, but here is the original award notice: Lt dR Hermann Bartels from Hannover and RIR 73. 

 

Hannov. Kurier, 23.9.1918

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by webr55

[Soderbaum]

Hi Dave,

 

Excellent summary regarding the candidates Tiede and Tiedje to be HOH3X  awardees.

 

I have read the BAMA for Lt dL Hans Tiedje, no indication that he received HOH3X. 

 

The BAMA file for the Ace Fritz Thiede has by "mistake" info on the Lt x dR Tiede (P) from FFA 73/FA 41. He was reported krank in May 1917, and later he served at AFP 2 and Idflieg. He joined FFA 73 in Sep 1916, so unlikely an candidate. Did Fritz Thiede receive the HOH3X late 1918 ? Btw, the file for the Pour le Merite holder Hans Klein have documents from three different flyers with that name 😉

 

I agree regarding Lt dR Ernst Tiede (P) as he was long timer in FFA 55/FA 25. He is rather certain the officer who received the HOH3X on 27.01.1917.

 

The mitgliederverzeichnis for Bund Bogohl from ca 1923 lists an Lt dL?* Tiedje as member. This society was for former flyers who had served within BAM, KG 2, BG 2 and BG 6 (basically same unit with different namings). From another source he apparently served in BG 2/11 (Bosta 11). *I do not have a copy of the original list, I only have an abschrift from someone who had the list. The original list probably have hometowns. The flyer who received the HOH3X on 22.01.1918 is probably him. I am doubtful regarding Walter..

 

Gunnar

 

[Soderbaum]

Hi again

 

I just notice that the first commander of FFA 73/FA 41 was Hptm Ernst Denk. He did come FFA 55 🤨.

 

So likely Hptm Denk took Lt dR Ernst Tiede with him when he formed the new unit .  My thoughts now is that Ernst Tiede served within the following units, FFA 55,FFA 73/FA 41,AFP 2,Idflieg and later in FAA 285. Hptm Denk was the commander of FAA 285 when Ernst Tiede crashed to his death so he probably wrote his obituary.

 

Gunnar 

[Deutschritter]

Can anyone supply the date for Wilhelm Anton von Haasy's HOH3⚔? Thank you.

[Mattyboy]

One of the Müller's - Hptm dR aD Peter Müller. From Neue Mannheimer Zeitung 01/05/1929 

 

[Dave Danner]

8 hours ago, Deutschritter said:

Can anyone supply the date for Wilhelm Anton von Haasy's HOH3⚔? Thank you.

Prussian award came on 27.7.1917. Bavarian Genehmigung zur Annahme came later, 28.8.1917 I think.

 

 

 

 

[Dave Danner]

Dr. Peter Müller was born on 30.9.1882 in Heiligkreuz, Weinheim.

[Bretzen]

Königlich Württembergischer Generalmajor z.D. Kurt Freiherr von Watter.

 

 

 

 

[Dave Danner]

I added some biographical details for Bavarian Hauptmann Hans Streit (HOH3X on 31.1.18) here: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=2461229#p2461229

 

He received the Deutsches Kreuz in Silber as Oberst z.V. and Chef des Stabes des Befehlshabers im Bezirk Nordostfrankreich.

[Deutschritter]

2 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

I added some biographical details for Bavarian Hauptmann Hans Streit (HOH3X on 31.1.18) here: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=2461229#p2461229

 

He received the Deutsches Kreuz in Silber as Oberst z.V. and Chef des Stabes des Befehlshabers im Bezirk Nordostfrankreich.

Death date: 6. Juni 1946

[Dave Danner]

According to the Mitteilungen of the IR 47 Offizierverein, Rudolf Hachmann, previously in IR 418, was Führer I./IR 398 from June 1917 on, then went to Ers./FR 37 in November 1918, so his mid-1918 HOH3X should be with IR 398.

 

Below is what information I have on some other IR 418 HOH3X-Träger:

 

Büttner, Karl Emil Julius Max, *6.4.1875 in Guben; als Portepée-Fähnrich in das GR 12 eingetreten, 18.6.95 ausgeschieden, 20.5.96 als Portepée-Fähnrich in das IR 59 wieder eingetreten, 17.4.97 Sek.Lt. im IR 59, 1898 in das IR 111 versetzt, 18.5.07 Oberleutnant, 27.1.13 Hauptmann, in das IR 173 versetzt, 1914 leicht verwundet als Chef der 2./IR 173, 1916 schwer verwundet als Chef der 2./173, 1917-18 Kommandeur des I./IR 418, September 1918 nach der Auflösung des IR 418 in das IR 116 versetzt, 1918 verwundet als Chef der 9./IR 116, Major a.D.; HOH3X, Cent, BZ3bE, BadRJM

 

Heizmann, Josef, *18.1.1894 in Bleibach, Waldkirch in Baden; 1916-18 Adjutant des I./IR 418, nach der Auflösung des Regiments am 15.9.18 kam das I./IR 418 zur 25. ID und Lt.d.R. Heizmann wurde in das LGIR 115 versetzt, am 20.10.18 vermißt, zur Zeit in der 10./IR 117; HOH3X (30.9.18), BZ3bX (10.5.16).

 - He's not in the Ehrenmal, so he was likely taken prisoner in October 1918. He's probably the 20.3.15 Lt.d.R. (Freiburg) mit Pat. v. 22.3.15 in LIR 72, but I'm not certain.

 

Kammenhuber, Karl, *3.3.1889 in Dörrwiesmühle, Urweiler, St. Wendel; 1914 verwundet als Einjährig-Freiwilliger, FR 80, 6.11.15 Lt.d.R. (St. Wendel) im LIR 118, 1917-18 Führer der 3.MGK/IR 418, 1935 Landgerichtsrat in Saarbrücken, 1940 Oberlandesgerichtsrat in Heidelberg; HOH3X (30.9.18).

 

Storz, Wilhelm, *2.1.1897 in Gnesen; 24.9.14 in das IR 47 eingetreten, 8.5.15 Fähnrich, 18.8.15 Leutnant, vorläufig ohne Patent (Patent 19.12.15), 23.9.16-19.3.18 im IR 418 (Fhr. 7./IR 418), 19.3.18 schwer verwundet, Leutnant a.D., 1.11.22 Dr.jur. et rer.pol. (Göttingen), Landgerichtsrat in den 1940, 1950 und 1960 Hannover Adressbücher.
 - There was a Kriegsverwaltungsabteilungschef Dr. Storz in the Militärverwaltung Frankreich in World War II, which may be him.

 

Storz only lists the HOH3X and Verwundetenabzeichen in schwarz among his awards. However, IR 418's Esatzformation was IR 116, and when it was dissolved it was absorbed by the 25.ID and 25.RD, so there's a Großherzoglich Hessen connection which makes the HT a possibility for other IR 418 officers. Two companies of the I. Bataillon came from IR 76, so it is also possible that Büttner and Heizmann received the Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz.

 

 

 

[webr55]

That's it for Hannoverscher Kurier in 1918. Too bad, had expected (much) more. 

[Dave Danner]

Tiedemann from RFAR 3 should be Eberhard, 18.10.1913 Lt.d.R. (VI Berlin) d. FAR 38. He was wounded in 1915 as Adjutant of I./RFAR 3. That Abteilung was formed on mobilization by FAR 38. He was born in Breslau.

 

Given the Berlin and Breslau connection, he may be Rechtsanwalt und Notar Paul Hermann Eberhard Tiedemann, *15.8.1882 in Breslau, †3.10.1941 in Berlin, although 31 seems a bit old for a newly commissioned Lt.d.R.

[Mattyboy]

New first name: Wilhelm Tewaag 

 

[webr55]

Now here is something special: Hindenburg personally exposing a fake HHOX claim.

 

Lengericher Zeitung, 7.5.1921

 

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by webr55

[Dave Danner]

On 08/10/2021 at 01:43, webr55 said:

Lt dL Rommel from LIR 122 is Gottfried, KIA 1918. 

 

Gottfried Rommel, born on 2 October 1878 in Grunbach, Schorndorf, died of wounds on 30 September 1918. According to the Militär-Kabinett, the HOH3X was awarded on 8.10.1918. His death was apparently not confirmed until 1919, so the award, even though posthumous, appears to have gone through.

 

He was commissioned a Leutnant der Landwehr-Infanterie I. Aufgebot on 30.10.1914 and received the WF3bX on 22.8.1916.

[Glenn J]

Presumably Otto Bürger and Wilhelm Holzapfel.

 

Regards

Glenn

 

 

[Stogieman]

Well, I hope one of you get this one, I pushed hard but have been outbid 

[Daniel Krause]

On 06/03/2023 at 20:45, Mattyboy said:

New first name: Wilhelm Tewaag 

 

 

 

Nice find! Brings as well a first name for Lt Scheuß!

 

Best,

Daniel

[Mattyboy]

Thanks! This looks like a new one - Hptm Friedrich Karl Dilthey from IR 83. Nachrichten für Stadt und Land: Oldenburger Zeitung für Volk und Heimat, 26 Jan 1919.