Is it a Turkish or German ribbon bar?

[03fahnen]

Is it a Turkish or German brooch?

A few months ago I bought this little brooch, and since then I have wondered if it would be for a Turkish officer or a German officer.

Any comment will be well received, thanks.

[Beau Newman]

Given the order of precedence, I would assume that it is a Turkish bar.

[03fahnen]

Thank you very much

[ccj]

It’s Turkish and very nice

[webr55]

What a beautiful bar!

I am wondering: if that is the Lübeck award at no. 3, he should be in their award rolls. I would guess there are not too many Turkish officers who got it (though probably more than one). If we then had access to the Austrian rolls, he might be identified. 
 

Might be the first Turkish officer ID’d purely by his ribbon bar and award lists...

[Nicolas7507]

Not sure about Lübeck. Why should it be inbetween turkish awards?

I am pretty sure, it is an Imtiaz Medal.

Here is a bar from my collection with the same ribbon:

 

[webr55]

Ok, I admit, I am not too familiar with Turkish awards. Not Lübeck, but Sanayi Medal.  

[Daniel Krause]

Me. ?

 

there are all, or most, of the Austro- hungarian awards files of WW1 still in the war archive Vienna. 

Unfortunately,  for this case, I have had only access to the lists for Prussian officers.

 

best,

Daniel 

[Daniel Krause]

Bravery medals and merit crosses to non Austrians -yes.

 

Best, 

Daniel 

[webr55]

But so, in theory, it might be possible to ID Nicolas7507's bar above with a Württemberg Friedrichsorden with X and the Austrian award to a Turkish officer. 
So I restate: This might be the first Turkish officer ID’d purely by his ribbon bar and award lists!

[The Prussian]

Hello!

It it would be a german brooch, the german Iron Cross would be at the first place.

I see:

Order of the Medjidie

Turkish war medal

Iftikhar Sanayi Medal

Prussian Iron Cross 2nd class

Austrian military merit cross

 

 

 

[ixhs]

Hi i cannot explain it in English and "Google Translator'" is not the best source.

I will write my opinion in German:

Meiner Meinung nach ist das die Feldspange eines Deutschen, der in osmanischen (türkischen)

Diensten stand. Ich hatte eine vergleichbare Spange mit einem Urkundenkonvolut vor ein paar Jahren.

Meiner Kenntnis nach wollte das Kaiserreich geeignetes Militärpersonal für das verbündete Osmanische

Reich anwerben. Man lockte mit einem orientalischen Erlebnis und einer "Beförderung". So wurde

z.B. aus einem deutschen Hauptmann ein osmanischer Major. Um die guten Beziehungen zum Sultan

zu wahren, trugen die Deutschen (ob es alle waren, kann ich nicht sagen, bei meinem Konvolut war es aber so)

die Feldspangen mit "osmanischen" Auszeichnungen zuerst und danach die anderen.

Es schönes Stück.  Die Spange mit dem Friedrichsorden könnten identifizierbar sein; die Quellen sind aber nicht

vollständig (also die, die ich habe)

MFG

 

[The Prussian]

Hi!

I haven´t heard from that... The german orders were clear. 1st the own medals, then the others.

Otherwise it might be ordered by A.K.O. see below.

But, maybe you´re right. The german soldiers, who were in turkish services, "belonged" to the turkish empire, so they had to wear the medals in the ottoman way... isn´t it?

Like I said, I´m not sure...

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by The Prussian

[03fahnen]

Thank you very much to all,
ixhs's point of view is interesting. opens up a wide range of possibilities

[Bayern]

14 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Hi!

I haven´t heard from that... The german orders were clear. 1st the own medals, then the others.

Otherwise it might be ordered by A.K.O. see below.

But, maybe you´re right. The german soldiers, who were in turkish services, "belonged" to the turkish empire, so they had to wear the medals in the ottoman way... isn´t it?

Like I said, I´m not sure...

 

 

Perhaps as a courtesy to the Sultan the German Officers were authorized to wear first their Turkish awards . after all they were commisioned into the Ottoman Army as  the prussian states ,  The German Civil Servants that were Ottoman Government Officials must wear the red Fez whe in service .I have a few Pics of my Paternal Grandfather who served as Civil Servant in Turkey during WW1 and in all he wears the Fez .

[The Prussian]

4 hours ago, 03fahnen said:

Thank you very much to all,
ixhs's point of view is interesting. opens up a wide range of possibilities

I´m afraid of that... ?

That would change my world view...

[ixhs]

Hi Preusse,

 

Could you please take the pics of the "Dr. Retzlaff Konvolut" into this thread.

You can find it in search function with "Retzlaff"

I have a few problems with the internet, today.

Thanks.

[The Prussian]

I only find photos of women of the labouir service...

[ixhs]

Now,  my internet connection is running better.

Here my pics of SDA:

 

 

[Claudius]

59 minutes ago, ixhs said:

Now,  my internet connection is running better.

Here my pics of SDA:

 

 

anyone read Turkish script?

 

 

[VtwinVince]

Very cool paper items, and the script is actually Arabic.

[Claudius]

10 minutes ago, VtwinVince said:

Very cool paper items, and the script is actually Arabic.

D'oh!

[ixhs]

The golden certification is about the Eiserne Halbmond ("Iron crescent aka. TWM")

I sold the lot a few years ago.

The FJO knight is a typical decoration for military docs and Geistliche.

 

Sanitätsmajor = in German a Stabsarzt. Because of his service in Militärmission Türkei

he got a rank higher.

Edited July 2, 2020 by ixhs

[webr55]

Very interesting papers, thanks!