03fahnen Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Is it a Turkish or German brooch? A few months ago I bought this little brooch, and since then I have wondered if it would be for a Turkish officer or a German officer. Any comment will be well received, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Newman Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Given the order of precedence, I would assume that it is a Turkish bar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03fahnen Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 It’s Turkish and very nice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 What a beautiful bar! I am wondering: if that is the Lübeck award at no. 3, he should be in their award rolls. I would guess there are not too many Turkish officers who got it (though probably more than one). If we then had access to the Austrian rolls, he might be identified. Might be the first Turkish officer ID’d purely by his ribbon bar and award lists... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas7507 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Not sure about Lübeck. Why should it be inbetween turkish awards? I am pretty sure, it is an Imtiaz Medal. Here is a bar from my collection with the same ribbon: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Ok, I admit, I am not too familiar with Turkish awards. Not Lübeck, but Sanayi Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Krause Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Me. ? there are all, or most, of the Austro- hungarian awards files of WW1 still in the war archive Vienna. Unfortunately, for this case, I have had only access to the lists for Prussian officers. best, Daniel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Krause Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Bravery medals and merit crosses to non Austrians -yes. Best, Daniel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 But so, in theory, it might be possible to ID Nicolas7507's bar above with a Württemberg Friedrichsorden with X and the Austrian award to a Turkish officer. So I restate: This might be the first Turkish officer ID’d purely by his ribbon bar and award lists! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hello! It it would be a german brooch, the german Iron Cross would be at the first place. I see: Order of the Medjidie Turkish war medal Iftikhar Sanayi Medal Prussian Iron Cross 2nd class Austrian military merit cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixhs Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Hi i cannot explain it in English and "Google Translator'" is not the best source. I will write my opinion in German: Meiner Meinung nach ist das die Feldspange eines Deutschen, der in osmanischen (türkischen) Diensten stand. Ich hatte eine vergleichbare Spange mit einem Urkundenkonvolut vor ein paar Jahren. Meiner Kenntnis nach wollte das Kaiserreich geeignetes Militärpersonal für das verbündete Osmanische Reich anwerben. Man lockte mit einem orientalischen Erlebnis und einer "Beförderung". So wurde z.B. aus einem deutschen Hauptmann ein osmanischer Major. Um die guten Beziehungen zum Sultan zu wahren, trugen die Deutschen (ob es alle waren, kann ich nicht sagen, bei meinem Konvolut war es aber so) die Feldspangen mit "osmanischen" Auszeichnungen zuerst und danach die anderen. Es schönes Stück. Die Spange mit dem Friedrichsorden könnten identifizierbar sein; die Quellen sind aber nicht vollständig (also die, die ich habe) MFG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) Hi! I haven´t heard from that... The german orders were clear. 1st the own medals, then the others. Otherwise it might be ordered by A.K.O. see below. But, maybe you´re right. The german soldiers, who were in turkish services, "belonged" to the turkish empire, so they had to wear the medals in the ottoman way... isn´t it? Like I said, I´m not sure... Edited June 22, 2020 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03fahnen Posted June 22, 2020 Author Share Posted June 22, 2020 Thank you very much to all, ixhs's point of view is interesting. opens up a wide range of possibilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 14 hours ago, The Prussian said: Hi! I haven´t heard from that... The german orders were clear. 1st the own medals, then the others. Otherwise it might be ordered by A.K.O. see below. But, maybe you´re right. The german soldiers, who were in turkish services, "belonged" to the turkish empire, so they had to wear the medals in the ottoman way... isn´t it? Like I said, I´m not sure... Perhaps as a courtesy to the Sultan the German Officers were authorized to wear first their Turkish awards . after all they were commisioned into the Ottoman Army as the prussian states , The German Civil Servants that were Ottoman Government Officials must wear the red Fez whe in service .I have a few Pics of my Paternal Grandfather who served as Civil Servant in Turkey during WW1 and in all he wears the Fez . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 4 hours ago, 03fahnen said: Thank you very much to all, ixhs's point of view is interesting. opens up a wide range of possibilities I´m afraid of that... ? That would change my world view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixhs Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Hi Preusse, Could you please take the pics of the "Dr. Retzlaff Konvolut" into this thread. You can find it in search function with "Retzlaff" I have a few problems with the internet, today. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 I only find photos of women of the labouir service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixhs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Now, my internet connection is running better. Here my pics of SDA: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 59 minutes ago, ixhs said: Now, my internet connection is running better. Here my pics of SDA: anyone read Turkish script? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Very cool paper items, and the script is actually Arabic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, VtwinVince said: Very cool paper items, and the script is actually Arabic. D'oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixhs Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) The golden certification is about the Eiserne Halbmond ("Iron crescent aka. TWM") I sold the lot a few years ago. The FJO knight is a typical decoration for military docs and Geistliche. Sanitätsmajor = in German a Stabsarzt. Because of his service in Militärmission Türkei he got a rank higher. Edited July 2, 2020 by ixhs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Very interesting papers, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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