saschaw

Great one, and nice you got it! Couldn't agree more, this is definitely a Prussian junior officer's bar with KO4. It should be identifiable, I think. Bavarians to "foreigners" is worked on, as is Mecklenburg... KO4 is likely pre-war, so in 1914 rank list... Problem is we don't know what year/month the bar dates to. If WW1 era - which I'd guess - he could easily have added the one or other award, so we cannot exclude anyone with other awards, as long as we cannot check the exact award dates.

Definitely something nice to own! I guess it's not coming with any provenience which could solve our quiz? The last one is the 1932 Bavarian jubilee medal for the 1st Chevauleger-Regiment (OEK #560)...

I may be wrong but hope I'm not, isn't the clasp one of those with computer generated font? Others are more expert than me - hope anyone chimes in.

Your "court type" was an Oberleutnant or Hauptmann, Prussian active army, in my opinion. No full 25 years of service yet, not yet an RAO4... but still two or three foreign orders - the last may be the Royal Saxon Albrechtsorden, or an Altenburg jubilee medal. The main problem is we don't know which year to look for him. If this is e.g. from 1908, it may be hard to find him in 1914, as he might have added a dozen other awards or has left active service...

Sorry, but the clasp seems to be recent fake and the bar looks rather like a 1930s bar for the Hindenburg cross...

I'm honestly not sure, but tend to like it...

Hureau de Senarmout, Alexandre Antoine - cannot find him! Comte de Lariboisiere, Jean Baston - Lariboissière, Comte de. Kaiserlich Französischer Divisions-General. Kommandeurkreuz am 20. November 1807. Großkreuz am 20. Oktober 1809. Duc d'Danzig, Francois Joseph Lefebvre - Lefèbvre, Francois-Joseph. Herzog von Danzig. Geboren 25. Oktober 1755, gestorben 14. September 1820. Kaiserlich Französischer Marschall. Großkreuz am 15. Juni 1808. von Thile, Adolf Eduard - Thile, von. Königlich Preußischer Generalleutnant und Kommandeur des VIII. Armeekorps. Großkreuz 1842.

This possibility isn't one, for the exact reason a Prussian (as he obviously is) would wear any Prussian order with swords on a black/white or white/black war ribbon (same as for Iron Crosses), and not on statutory ribbons. This leaves peace time awards only... assuming the precendece is right, it should be RAO 4th class, KO 4th class and the Inhaberkreuz of the Royal HOH. Everything else would be impossible - or inaccurate. As before, all based on the fact the HOH ribbon shows "royal" mounting traces. The RAO and KO medals are a very different issue. They were not part of the orders, and not even part of Prussia's official award system, rather handed out like candy by the king when visiting e. g. forgein (non-Prussian) courts or to honour other persons, that were not "worthy" for the real orders or decorations. And, they were never ever awarded with swords!

Sure? Would someone promotoed to Leutnant dR put it away? Sicher? Würde jemand, der zum Leutnant dR befördert wurde, sie ablegen?

I'm not aware of any Jewish person with that name. He was of German protestant nobility, as can be seen on his Johanniter order. Great bar, great research!

The Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen wasn't instituted until 1938, which leave about four years for this bar to be made for him.

Indeed, it's hobby full of surprises...

Klenau has them as "mid 19th century", but noone knows for sure. It's not even known who exactely made them. It seems the records on it are lost.

Don't think this is an old one. A bunch of this oddly mounted bars was sold some years ago, all from the same seller, and this was probably one of them. The 2nd one is very nice, of course!

You know the names of all "Karl Friedrich" orders and medal wearers were published some years ago by Zelosko?! Sorted by name, not by year or class, which makes it difficult to check against yours... though, probably of interest.

Thanks for showing this jewel with better pictures! That wasn't meant for yours, but the other one in the old thread on the other forum.

Never heard any interpretation... but would have an idea handy, of course! ;o)

That's one that used to come from "the club"...

The combination is not possible. The MVK is a Göde repro. There should be a 1914 EK2 instead on the bar.

Well, if anyone could contribute, they probably would... but I fear that's the actual problem.

Wow! Just wow...

You can check this on the rim. If there is not a mark, it's real silver, and if it's a silvered one (from bronze, zinc or steel) there is a symbol to indicate it.

Great, isn't it? Must be a young Hauptmann... I noticed the 5th to last may also be the Baden "Friedrich-Luisen-Medaille" instead of the Brunswick order... 4th to last still confuses me. If he was a Badener, it has to be the 1902 jubilee medal. But it's not the proper ribbon.

Indeed typical Frankenstein. But flat screw back crosses do exist, after all. Check this one out. It's one piece made and from steel. Totally not what one would expect!

#3? That's the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille from 1897, socalled centenary medal. Proper Prussian precedence...