Godet’s ribbon bar with lots of miniature devices

[Claudio]

Dear forumites!

After a long pause I’m happy to show my latest acquisition: a beautiful Godet made ribbon bar with lots of exotic miniature devices and narrow ribbons (10mm).

Can this be id’ed? This certainly belonged to high ranking government functionary or aristocratic VIP.

Thank you in advance for inputs and opinions.

Best regards

C

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Claudio
Grammar

[chuck]

Claudio 

congratulations on the new bar. it is very good looking bar. could you please explain all the devices as I do not know what many of the ribbons or devices signify.

 

thanks,

 chuck 

[1812 Overture]

EK2（I am more curious about how there is no Nazi eagle?）、KVK2、Saxony St. Henry Order 、Saxony Ernestine Order、Hindenburg medals, Bulgarian military achievements、Osman Im Diaz Medal、Nazi German Social Welfare Commander orders breast star, air defense level order、Berlin 1936 Olympics order、I am not very sure about this, I feel that it is the Italian military merit cross.、Italy Saint Maurice Big Cross Breast Star、Japanese Red Cross member medal、May be Hungary (the last one)。

I hope someone can understand my lame English. 

[Claudio]

On the ribbon bar are:
 

1. Prussia, EK1914 2 Kl.
2. 3rd Reich, KVK 2. Kl. with swords
3. Saxony Kingdom, Order of St. Heinrich (RK or medal? both possible)
4. Saxon Duchies, Saxon Ernestine House Order (probably RK 2nd or eventually 1st class)
5. 3rd Reich, FEK (aka Hindenburg cross)
6. Bulgaria Kingdom, Cross of military merit on Bravery ribbon
7. Ottoman Empire,  Imtiyaz Medal with crossed swords (Bravery Medal)
8. 3rd Reich, Deutsches Volkpflege-Ehrenzeichen (Social Welfare Decoration), highest class (Breast star)
9. 3rd Reich, Luftschutz-Ehrenzeichen (Air Defence Decoration), highest class (1st class)
10. 3rd Reich, German Olympic Decoration, very likely highest (neck) class because of the enamelled eagle
11. Not sure: Greece Kingdom, Order of the Redeemer
12. Italy Kingdom/Fascist Era, Order of the Saints Mauritius & Lazarus, highest class (Breast star)
13. Japan, red cross decoration
14. Hungary, National Order of Saint Stephan, highest class (Breast star)

 

15 minutes ago, 1812 Overture said:

EK2（I am more curious about how there is no Nazi eagle?）、KVK2、Saxony St. Henry Order 、Saxony Ernestine Order、Hindenburg medals, Bulgarian military achievements、Osman Im Diaz Medal、Nazi German Social Welfare Commander orders breast star, air defense level order、Berlin 1936 Olympics order、I am not very sure about this, I feel that it is the Italian military merit cross.、Italy Saint Maurice Big Cross Breast Star、Japanese Red Cross member medal、May be Hungary (the last one)。

I hope someone can understand my lame English. 

You were by seconds quicker than me...

[Nicolas7507]

Very interesting to see a Japanese Red Cross decoration in combination with the other awards.

[Claudio]

Yes and no, the German Social welfare decoration was also the successor order of the German Red Cross decoration... and these Japanese Red Cross decoration you could easily be bestowed by giving an important amount of money as charity to the Japanese Red Cross organisation. Besides Japan was an important ally of the triple steel anti communist pact of Germany/Italy/Japan.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Claudio
A

[Komtur]

11. United Kingdom Jubilee medal 1897

[VtwinVince]

That's a very cool bar. I don't think 11 is the English Jubilee, otherwise he would have gotten the Centennar Medal.

[laurentius]

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

I don't think 11 is the English Jubilee, otherwise he would have gotten the Centennar Medal.

If this person is indeed a civilian working in the government he wouldn't have received a zentenarenmedaille, which was only given to members of the standing army, the navy, and veterans of 1870/1871. Someone of noble birth, with a civilian career and a short warservice in the rank of a Oberleutnant/Hauptmann seems fitting for this ribbonbar.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[P.F.]

A fantastic ribbon bar. If I was to hazard a guess I would say one of the bars of

Herzog Carl Eduard von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha

[922F]

Tend to agree with P.F.  Missing ones may mislead but this seems to be leaning towards one of his Red Cross oriented bars -- missing Hungarian Horthy-era Red Cross special decoration.

[Claudio]

11 hours ago, P.F. said:

A fantastic ribbon bar. If I was to hazard a guess I would say one of the bars of

Herzog Carl Eduard von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha

Naturally I thought of him first, too, but Charles Edward (Carl Eduard von Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha) was awarded of many more and completely different awards... there are lots of pictures of him wearing different medal and ribbon bars, but no-one with that particular combination like I have shown in my thread.

Carl Eduard wore such a wide variety of miniature ribbons bar, double rows ribbon bars, single normal sized ribbon bars,  full sized medal bars... and he also wore lots different uniforms, Old Imperial Officer/General, Freikorps, SA, NSKK, Allgemeine-SS (black), Head of the Reichsluftschutzbund or as President of the German Red Cross uniforms... and many more. I'm posting some of the photographs with him, just to show you all, how many uniforms and different sets of medal/ribbon bars he had. Just incredible! But unfortunately, I don't think it is "my guy"... ?

11 hours ago, 922F said:

Tend to agree with P.F.  Missing ones may mislead but this seems to be leaning towards one of his Red Cross oriented bars -- missing Hungarian Horthy-era Red Cross special decoration.

Yes, strange but not impossible or maybe he did not wear all the ribbons of the decorations he was bestowed.

Thank you all for your interesting point of views and comments.

Claudio

 

[gjw]

Hi all,  there is an interesting video on Grand Duke Carl on Youtube (Hitler's Favorite Royal).  You can feel for the poor guy after you watch you.  Anyway, hope this link works if your interested.

 

 

 

[laurentius]

On 31/10/2019 at 10:18, Claudio said:

1. Prussia, EK1914 2 Kl.
2. 3rd Reich, KVK 2. Kl. with swords
3. Saxony Kingdom, Order of St. Heinrich (RK or medal? both possible)
4. Saxon Duchies, Saxon Ernestine House Order (probably RK 2nd or eventually 1st class)
5. 3rd Reich, FEK (aka Hindenburg cross)
6. Bulgaria Kingdom, Cross of military merit on Bravery ribbon
7. Ottoman Empire,  Imtiyaz Medal with crossed swords (Bravery Medal)
8. 3rd Reich, Deutsches Volkpflege-Ehrenzeichen (Social Welfare Decoration), highest class (Breast star)
9. 3rd Reich, Luftschutz-Ehrenzeichen (Air Defence Decoration), highest class (1st class)
10. 3rd Reich, German Olympic Decoration, very likely highest (neck) class because of the enamelled eagle
11. Not sure: Greece Kingdom, Order of the Redeemer
12. Italy Kingdom/Fascist Era, Order of the Saints Mauritius & Lazarus, highest class (Breast star)
13. Japan, red cross decoration
14. Hungary, National Order of Saint Stephan, highest class (Breast star)

 

Regarding the St. henry, I'm fairly certain this would be an RK, and not the medal. Especially combined with the other orders.

[drspeck]

2 hours ago, laurentius said:

• 11. Not sure: Greece Kingdom, Order of the Redeemer

Does the clasp on the 11th ribbon say 1897? If so, it looks like the Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee Medal of 1897 with gold clasp to royal family members.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Victoria_Diamond_Jubilee_Medal

Edited November 1, 2019 by drspeck

[JapanX]

Nice medal bar, Claudio. 

As for the japanese ribbon, most likely this is not a medal of regular member, but an order of merit.

Both are using the very same ribbon without rosette. 

[P.F.]

Claudio,

I will not try to convince you but some evidence that may help- this bar seems to show the Imperial medals important to the Duke. A similar combination is seen in the photo you posted, including the Luftschutz Decoration and the British Jubilee Medal. This British medal would be quite uncommon, if not "rare" on a German bar and certainly one made during the 1940s. A link perhaps to the Duke's lost English titles.

Your bar certainly shows all awards that he possessed. The only one I personally was not aware of was the Japanese Red Cross, but it certainly makes sense for him to have this given he was head of the German Red Cross. 

Best wishes.
Pierce

Just to add that the 1897 Clasp on the British Queen Victorian Jubilee Medal signifies that he also held the Golden Jubilee Medal (1887). The clasp was given in lieu of a second medal. This too might narrow the field.

Best,
Pierce

[Claudio]

Hi Pierce!

If that blue white striped ribbon with crown device is a British Jubilee medal, then it narrows completely down to a unique possible wearer... I only was a bit puzzled to see a couple of Saxon Duchies ribbons they might have on this bar as well... especially that black yellow ribbon with the year device Ovale silberne Herzog Carl Eduard Medaille mit Krone ( home war merit medal with year of bestowal). But again in this case the original owner of this unique ribbon bar decided only to wear these orders and no medals.

Thank you for all your inputs.

C

 

[ixhs]

 

Sorry -

I would have some questions about the ribbon bar:

If it is a "unmarked" Godet ribbon bar - i have never seen ribbons bar of Godet with golden "catch" and Nadelbock  -

are there similar pieces out there,  i could see ?

And: Especially the sword devices are not in a very good quality, aren`t they ?

I think the piece was made latest in the early 1940s if it`s a period piece of a St. Heinrichs Ritter (knight or higher, not a medal)

He had the Imtiaz medal with X - what about a (golden) Liakat or a Iron cresent?

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by ixhs

[Claudio]

IMHO this ribbon bar looks like a typical Godet, which I have several in my collection, ribbon and medal bars.

The hinge of the pin on reverse like also the fabric and kind of stitching does all look like the even the same person who worked at Godet did that. This guy had at least 15-20 or even more different uniforms on which on each of them had different medal or ribbon bars being made by different vendors.

I think even the crossed swords devices they look even the type Godet used during WW2, of lesser stamped good quality. This bar would have been put together not sooner of 1940/41 (see that KVK2). It would be interesting to know when the duke got it (date of bestowal). In the end they took whatever it was still available in war and I said it before, in war I’m pretty sure they won’t have used metal devices like crossed swords in silver they might have used before, during and right after WW1.

Bottom line is that I’m quite satisfied with this my purchase, more than some others.

C

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Claudio
Correction

[webr55]

I'd say this can only have belonged to Carl Eduard. Such an amount of carefully, specially made devices like this you only find on a bar that belonged to the head of a (former) ruling house. No. 11 definitely is the 1897 British Victoria Jubilee medal, which he probably chose to wear as he felt a personal attachment to Queen Victoria even during wartime. The only thing that puzzled me first was the lack of his own WW1 Carl Eduard Medal. But as the close-up of his photo in the car above shows, he sometimes chose to not wear this medal, and went just for orders instead of medals.
There is also a simple explanation why Bulgarian and Turkish awards came before other German ones: They were wartime awards, which he placed before all other non war-related ones.  
What an amazing bar, congratulations Claudio!

[Claudio]

18 hours ago, webr55 said:

I'd say this can only have belonged to Carl Eduard. Such an amount of carefully, specially made devices like this you only find on a bar that belonged to the head of a (former) ruling house. No. 11 definitely is the 1897 British Victoria Jubilee medal, which he probably chose to wear as he felt a personal attachment to Queen Victoria even during wartime. The only thing that puzzled me first was the lack of his own WW1 Carl Eduard Medal. But as the close-up of his photo in the car above shows, he sometimes chose to not wear this medal, and went just for orders instead of medals.
There is also a simple explanation why Bulgarian and Turkish awards came before other German ones: They were wartime awards, which he placed before all other non war-related ones.  
What an amazing bar, congratulations Claudio!

Thank you! ???

[Claudio]

Hi everybody!

It just arrived... it took ages, but the quality is really mind blowing. Now I’m 100% convinced it belonged to the Duke...

Enjoy  the picture!

cheers,

C

 

I forgot to say that the lenght of the ribbon bar is only 11 cm!!!

 

[ixhs]

I have still problems with the quality of the devices. But if you like it - why not.

[922F]

Wonderful find Claudio!  You undoubtedly are pleased, proud and very happy!