Massive 24 place ww1 ribbon bar

[drspeck]

Dear Gentlemen,

I did not know it was possible to squize so many ribbons on a single bar  I haven't had any time to post this one until now. Any thoughts on this massive, 24 place, Godet Prussian bar?

Best regards,

Peter

Edited June 9, 2019 by drspeck

[ccj]

Impressive 

[Daniel Krause]

Ah. You were the guy outbidding me at Zeige :-)

Nice bar, for sure!

 

greetings

Daniel 

[seeheld]

One Word only: WOW!

Edited June 9, 2019 by seeheld

[Utgardloki]

Beautiful! Do we know the owner?

[Claudio]

Wow! ???????

That‘s quite a ribbon bar... it looks like a Godet, with mini ribbons of 1 cm of width.

When I look at this bar with the Prussian cross for war merit at the second place and all these orders I was thinking of Ludendorff...?

Great ribbon bar indeed!!!?

regards,

C

[Paul C]

I see a red flag, a KO4x without any service in China or SWA and no long service ribbon.

[Nicolas7507]

15 minutes ago, Paul C said:

I see a red flag, a KO4x without any service in China or SWA and no long service ribbon.

Looks like a Friedrichsorden to me and Sixth ribbon from the right looks like Long Service.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Nicolas7507

[laurentius]

I agree with Nicolas, the blue ribbon is a Friedrichsorden with swords. A KO4x would need the ribbon of the Iron Cross. I also agree that the sixt ribbon from the right, squeezed in between the Bavarian Order of St. Michael and the Centenary-medal, is a Long Service award. I had the same idea as Claudio, this could very well be a ribbonbar which belonged to Ludendorff.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[Daniel Krause]

Not Ludendorff. Awards do not fit. ?

a simple look in the 1914 ranklist would show that Ludendorff had other peacetime awards, shown at the end of this bar.

[laurentius]

Is it not possible perhaps, that he chose only to wear his German pre-war awards? All of his peacetime awards are German, whilst I can imagine that an up-and-coming colonel as himself, often praised for his work gathered quite an amount of awards. Maybe he had to make some tough calls and left several awards of his ribbonbar. Highly decorated men like Ludendorff always had to watch out not to wear ribbonbars which are too long, like Ludwig Beck in this picture.

Kind regards, Laurentius

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by laurentius

[Daniel Krause]

Right, plenty of guys did not wear everything.

Our guy here did not even wear all his german peacetime stuff.

But, sorry again. It is not Ludendorff.

Ludendorff never got a bavarian wartime military merit order, he did get 2 classes of the max joseph in ww1.

He did as well get 2 classes of the higher ranking austrian leopold which are not shown here. Why to wear a lower iron crown but not the "better" leopold?

 

 

Greetings 

Daniel

[laurentius]

10 minutes ago, Daniel Krause said:

Why to wear a lower iron crown but not the "better" leopold?

 

Maybe he liked the eagle better, seems to be a recurring theme in Germany in those days?

[Mattyboy]

Is that the Hanseatic trio just before the Hindenburg cross? If so, there was a list on this forum somewhere - it might help to identify the owner ?

[drspeck]

Dear all. Thanks for all the comments and feedback so far Any other ideas, options?

Thanks. Peter.

[drspeck]

Dear all,

With the kind help from Daniel Krause and Paul Chepurko this bar has been identified to be from Generalleutnant Heinrich Schëuch (Charakter als General der Infanterie). His bio and promotions can be found here:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Schëuch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Scheuch

He can be found in the 1914 rank list on page 8 as Director of the central department (Zentral-Departement) of the War Ministry. He was one of the last ministers of war of Prussia. In the attachment his 1914 rank list entry. I'm not yet proficiant in this but I'll give it a try - these are the orders from his 1914 rank list entry (please correct me if I'm incorrect or add info if/where necessary):

- Prussia Red eagle order 3rd class with bow and crown
- Prussia Crownorder 3rd class
- Prussia Long service cross
- Baden Order of Berthold 3rd class (BBi.3)
- Baden Zahringer lion 3rd class with oakleaves (BZ3bmE)
- Bavaria Order of Michael 3rd class (BM3)
- Bavaria Military merit cross 3rd class (BMV3)
- Lippe House order 2nd class (LDH2)
- Mecklenburg Order of the Griffin 2nd class (MG2b)
- Saxon Order of Albrecht 3rd class (SA3)
- Wurttemberg Order of the Crown 2nd class (WK2c)
- Bulgaria Order of Alexander 3rd class (BA3)
- Japan Order of the sacred treasure 3rd class (JZ3) (Orden des Heiligen Schatzes - Zuihosho)
- Austria Order of the Iron Crown 2nd class (OEK2)
- Romania Star of Romania 3rd class (RumSt3)
- Sweden Order of the Sword 2nd class (SS2b)

There must be reasons why some of these do not show up on this post-1918 ribbon bar:

- The Red Eagle order is not on this bar; was it upgraded to a cross to be worn around the neck? And hence is not showing on this bar?
- Was the Crown order upgraded with swords?
- Either the Order of Berthold or the Lippe House order was a cross, not a medal (one of these is not on this bar). Can anyone confirm?
- Was the order of the griffin an officers cross?
- Was the order of Albrecht upgraded with swords?
- Was teh Wurttemberg Order of the Crown upgraded with swords?

Please add information if available.

Best,

Peter

Edited April 27, 2020 by drspeck

[Deruelle]

9 minutes ago, drspeck said:

With the kind help from Daniel Krause and Paul Chepurko this bar has been identified to be from Generalleutnant Heinrich Schëuch (Charakter als General der Infanterie).

Hi

Great job and very nice ribbon bar. Congrats

 

 

[JohanH]

Heinrich Sheuch was awarded the commander 2nd class of the Swedish order of the sword on 20 October 1912.

[Great Dane]

The Griffin MG2b would be a 'Komtur' (neck cross).

Impressive bar and impressive research!

[drspeck]

7 minutes ago, JohanH said:

Heinrich Sheuch was awarded the commander 2nd class of the Swedish order of the sword on 20 October 1912.

 

4 minutes ago, Great Dane said:

The Griffin MG2b would be a 'Komtur' (neck cross).

Impressive bar and impressive research!

 Thanks, this explains why I could not connect these to the ribbon bar

[P.F.]

What a bar! Congrats on the ID Peter.

Kind regards,
Pierce

[Chris Boonzaier]

"Heinrich Sheuch was awarded the commander 2nd class of the Swedish order of the sword on 20 October 1912. " ... does anyone know the criteria for this award? I saw one awarded to a Bavarian NCO as well

[drspeck]

18 hours ago, P.F. said:

What a bar! Congrats on the ID Peter.

Kind regards,
Pierce

Thnx

[JohanH]

10 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

"Heinrich Sheuch was awarded the commander 2nd class of the Swedish order of the sword on 20 October 1912. " ... does anyone know the criteria for this award? I saw one awarded to a Bavarian NCO as well

All I can find in my books are the statues of 1902 and they don´t mention foreign recipients criteria at all.
Only that Commander 2nd class and knight 2nd class was only awarded to foreigners until 1889, after that they can be awarded to swedes too. 

Swedes could be awarded the order of the sword for things like long service, bravery in the field or service to the country. 
 

I am working on transcribing the award rolls for the Swedish orders from 1748 to 1974 and are almost done with commander 2nd class. My biggest issue is lack of time...

[Paul R]

Can you imagine the weight of that medal bar?